And aside from utopia and dystopia, what if there is a specific disagreement, like: should there be police at the hospital or not? Who gets to decide what actually gets physically put down on the paper if there are competing versions of utopia?
Up to now, the way it has worked is that everyone has their own space that they do not need to negotiate, and the idea is that people only connect when they need to.
There are no restrictions on resources in the game. So if one person wants police at the hospital, and another does not, then because it is a big sheet of paper, they can simply draw two hospitals. Most people will probably not choose the hospital with police, and that becomes visible naturally.
So in practice, there have not been many outright clashes, because there is enough space for different visions to exist side by side.
This is my last question. Do you think visual assemblies are a kind of non-traditional interface that points to other kinds of non-traditional assemblies we might have? In other words, what other things could be possible, things that open up space in a similar way, but are different genres of convening and participation?
I think there are probably ten thousand different social rituals in different cultures that are more or less about the same thing.
A very good example is carnival, because in carnival people also come together in one place and, in a way, try to reimagine social order. Someone who was king becomes a joker, and vice versa. A queen is chosen. It is also a way of practising different ways of living together.
That can lead to something or not; it depends on the culture and context. But the premise is the same.
Actually, one final final question. This started during Covid. Do you think it has taken off and continued to grow since the lockdowns ended?
Yes, although I do not know whether that is because I keep pushing it, or whether it would continue on its own. We will see in ten years.
I think the playground version is very promising, because my understanding now is that you need a physical place where a group of people can do it themselves, and have a reason to do it themselves, without needing someone from outside to organise it for them.
Yes, that makes sense. Thank you so much.
Good to see you.