So I’ve shared three works as a starting point here and just wanted to acknowledge that while they are inclined towards the philosophical I think selected excerpts from them could provide inspiring and thought provocative territories for us to think together with. I would be willing to consider which excerpts can be accessible and relevant pending what they would be read alongside.
I also happens to be a damn good book!
I’ve been trying to decide if Robert Heinlein’s ‘Stranger in a strange land’ would fit into this. Probably not as it doesn’t deal with economics specifically. But it definitely has a focus on alternative living.
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I would definitely not include Stranger. But you make a good point, @alex_levene, because in there lurks utopianism. Authors who tried to imagine a different economy were generally trying to underpin some kind of utopian society. _Dys_topians generally get by by imagining some kind of capitalism on steroids, like William Gibson in The Peripheral.
I have been toying with the idea to include something from Iain Banks’s Culture series, exactly because of that: it is perhaps the most convincing (non-creepy) positive utopia I have ever read. There is, I think, the spectre of Keynes lurking behind it, specifically his much-loved 1930 essay Economic possibilities for our grandchildren (full text). In it, Keynes foresees a society of abundance (“we already have the technology!”), where the problem would have been how to keep people busy when there is no need for working. But no: the economy of the Culture in Banks is completely waved through. Nothing to learn there.
So we’re looking very specifically for fictional work that sets out a clear economic system (preferably Utopian, preferably living authors)
That does narrow the focus quite considerably
No, that’s too narrow a set. We try to do that for the seminar itself. But in the reading list we can afford to be more open. Still, Stranger does not strike to me as having any interest whatsoever in economics.
Okay thats good to know.
I quick Google search has brought up the following links that may have ideas/authors worth exploring. I will look further into some of the suggested books:
It’s also worth noting that the Foundation Series by Asimov pops up here as being full of economics theories that make no sense and the danger of seeing psychohistory as a science. So perhaps it deserves an honourable mention for being so wrong. Also, if we’re encouraging people to read classic Sci Fi, you can’t go wrong with these books. They turned me on to Science Fiction as a genre.
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Alex! Great finds, though I disagree with about 30% of the post. Let me look into the book. Stand by…
I have just ordered a copy of the Economic Science Fictions book, which will arrive before i leave for the Retreat. So i will bring it with me for you to digest
Also a runner-up: Ada Palmer’s Terra Ignota series. Substantial world building, not sure about the economics part. Has anyone read it?
Indeed, @jolwalton! Great find. It will take me some time to sort through it. Welcome, by the way!
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Naomi Mitchinson Memoirs of a Spacewoman.
Strugatski Brothers The Final Circle of Paradise.
John Brunner Shockwave Rider.
Augustin de Roja The Year 200.
Algis Budrys Michaelmas.
C.M.Kornbluth The Syndic.
Pohl and Kornbluth The Space Merchants
all titles which address political economy…
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The Disposessed compares two worlds: A capitalist one, and a a pure communist (very similar to Marx) of true equality, no government – only syndicates – and unfortunately abject poverty. It makes a good pairing with the Iain Banks “Culture” novels, to see that poverty-communism and “fully automated luxury communism” are both possible, which leaves us to wonder whether it’s do-able in a world where there is a modest amount of luxury, but not enough to give it to everyone.
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A couple others:
- Down and Out in the Magic Kindgom, Cory Doctorow. Explores the idea of a reputation-based economy.
- Neptunes Brood, Charles Stross (loose sequel to Saturn’s Children). Inspired by “Debt, the First 5000 Years” it explores economics in a slower-than-light starfaring civilzation
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Maybe not Stranger, but definitely The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Pure Milton Friedman. TANSTAAFL!
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Subspace Explorers by E. E. Smith “The Principle of Enlightened Self Interest” as the basis of an economy.
Ring of Fire by Eric Flint Unions as the basis of commonweal
Dune / Frank Herbert. The spice must flow!
At this point I definitely need to read The Dispossessed – I have not. I have read the Culture series, at least twice every book. I am a big fan, but there is not a lot of convincing economics in there. The way it works is widespread omnipotence: anyone can make anything anywhere out of the grid. No need for trade or allocation, so no economy is necessary.
Plus, there is a dynamic argument: it’s not clear how a civ could get to be the Culture. Somehow abundance is allowed to happen. Somehow, no élite steps in to create artificial scarcity and find itself on the winning side of things. When it was level 4 or 5, one assumes, its élites simply graciously stepped aside. Hmmm.
Welcome, @joelfinkle! This is shaping up to be a really enjoyable discussion. 