The facilitator came back to us, saying it’s up to us to fix a moment in their agenda (which they had forgotten to mention and share). So here are their availabilities. Can you fill in the poll?
@alberto ,sorry, language confusion M = mardi (not M= ‘maandag’, monday) : it’s the Tuesday 9/12.
@Sterre , alberto, we can make it all three of us on tuesday 23/12 at 10:30, so let’s pick that day (and not any moment sooner were we can make it with 2 people),
Hello @els@Sterre I dug out my old energy community material and put in the Energy Community folder.
The main thing is the back-of-the-envelope spreadsheet. We basically need to produce something like that, but much more precise. In the “parameters” tab, basically everything is a guesstimate, except the feed-in tariff of 8.5 cent x Kwh (and including the average electricity price, that made sense at the time but would have been a lot higher in 2022 for example).
I had also downloaded the simulator from the website of the facilitateurs but quickly gave up as the macro would not run. Probably it does not like my Excel for Mac ODS, someone with a Windows laptop might be needed.
We are seeing the facilitator next week, maybe good to plan an online meeting after that one.
(fyi i wrote to the facilitator twice now, to ask what info he needs to help us defining the setup, but so far no answer)
I tried on my personal pc but with libre office it didn’t function neither.
I tried with my pc from work but am getting ‘invalid call’ messages, so not a success neither
I dived into your excell and tried to understand it, but the result is… i don’t ( ). If you prefer to call, let me know…
I have only looked at the solar only sheet
For your yearly benefits you arrive at a total of 24.449 euro which is composed of
revenue from feed-in tariff
savings on electricity cost
I know you explained it already, but still don’t really grasp what this feed-in tariff is.
Assumption A: it is the price Torpedo will get from selling the energy produced by Torpedo’s solar pannels to the reeflings
Assumption B: it is a price Torpedo gets from an instance (government?) for every kWH produced
Assumption C: it is a price Torpedo gets from the net provider for what Torpedo’s solar pannels produce but the reeflings don’t consume and the batteries cannot store
If Assumption A is the correct answer
Then the only revenue for Torpedo I see is the locally generated KwH’s at feed-in tariff.
(and maybe the selling of certificats verts, if we are at less than 100 kWc. Not sure we need to count much on this as I have the impression they are phasing out this measure, to be checked with the facilitateur)
So what does this ‘saving on electricity cost’ represent?
If Assumption B is the correct answer
in this case the revenue from feed in tariff is what we get from an external instance
the savings on electricity cost. In this case I understand that you set the price that the reeflings need to pay to Torpedo for the local energy produced by Torpedo, = to the price we need to pay to a net provider
I suppose you ignored here the net costs and the possible taxes, just to keep it simple?
Searching the internet for feed-in-tariff in belgium and reading quite some info on the site of l’ibge (where i don’t find anything about feed in tariffs, only about possible certificats verts) I find the following. So what am I missing?
I think in the case with batteries, this overproduction will be very limited and to be ignored, so definately not = locally generated kWh’s (= 64 400 kWh’s)
You, an average Belgian family, need 2,500 KWh in a year.
You buy them from Engie at 35 cent x Kwh and pay 875 EUR.
Enter Torpedo, your energy community. Initially, assume Torpedo’s solar equipment is a gift from Sinterklaas. You can think of it like this:
You still need 2,500 KWh, but now you buy them from Torpedo.
Torpedo produces locally 50% of it, so 1,250. These are free, thanks to Sinterklaas-donated solar panels and batteries
On these 1,250 (produced and consumed in the same building) Torpedo receives a feed-in tariff of 8.5 cent x KWh, so 106 in total.
The other 50% (1,250 KWh) Torpedo buys from Engie. It pays the regular price of 35 cent; and, to pay, it has the 106 EUR from the feed-in tariff. So it pays (1,250 x 0.35) = 437. To do so, it uses its 106 EUR, and bills back to you the difference 437 -106 = 331.
This means your total bill went from 875 to 331. Not bad!
Now, remove Sinterklaas. You now have to finance Torpedo’s equipment yourself. Is it worth it? It depends. What you know is that you are saving 875 - 331 = 544 EUR a year. How much do those solar panels cost? Suppose they cost you 2,000 EUR. That means that, in four years, you will have spent 2,000, but will have saved 544 x 4 = 2,176 EUR, so overall you have saved 176. If the solar panels last ten years, you can then add six more years of savings to your budget. That brings your savings to (6 x 544) + 176 = 3,440.
In this example, the solar panels have what economists call good unit economics. It means that an investment in them is a good investment, and it’s “just” a matter of finding the money for it.
I understand the logic, I just have doubts about the existence of this feed-in tariff. Can you tell me where you found this info?
And is this feed-in tariff linked to the fact you are an energy community, or is it linked to the fact you produce electricity via solar pannels (or both)
Anyway it’s a question we can ask tomorrow, unless you already asked it to them
I wrote the minutes from today’s meeting with the facilitator: Login – Nextcloud
I asked the facilitator to send us the simulator we filled in, in today’s meeting. I also wrote to him today with some reef info (number of adults/children, type of units,… to get a more precise energy consumption for the reef. Once we have that we can adapt the simulation we did today
as mentionned, the simulator now works on my pc from work. I am going to work on a reef simulation file, with a more precise reef consumption, with different ‘price’ scenario’s,… Depending on when i get the necessary answers from the facilitator, i hope to have this done by January 5th
It makes sense to have a one hour meeting only if we have something to look at. I imagine this:
if you manage to encode the data as per this post, AND
if we can get Jean to correct his estimate of the commons’ consumption by the laundry room (fairly important, though of course the total consumption stays the same and we simply shift it from individual units to the common smart meter), AND
if you can run the macro (alternative: send the encoded Excel to Jean and ask him to reveiw and run the macro),
THEN we have a new simulation that we can look at. At that point we can use the meeting to wrap our heads around the economics, play with several scenarios in terms of different internal prices, and hopefully we can start to sketch a proposal.
Makes sense?
Do you think these three things are possible? I know I am pinning a lot on you, do push back if you think it is too much.
Our next meeting is fixed on Monday 19/01 at 20:00, online, probably only taking half an hour instead of an hour.
I agree Alberto, 1 hour will probably be too much.
I will write again to the facilitator, to ask him the extra info about the commons (and remind him to give the more detailed energy consumptions for the different reef profiles). I was also thinking about asking Mieke and Hannah for their current consumptions as they might be quite similar to our Reef consumptions, just as a way to compare jean’s results (as I have the impression he might not know it in such a detail)
Filling in the excell and running it, is really not a lot of work, so all good.
With the helping circle ‘energy community’, we are trying to get a view on what our futur energy consumption will be. If I remember well, you are both living in a passive house/low energy house, so your data might be interesting for us. Would it be possible to give your energy consumption (in kWh, on a yearly basis)?
Mieke, you still have a connection to gaz/no heatpump, correct? And you use gaz for heating water and heating (not cooking), correct
Hannah, you don’t have gaz any more and have a heatpump , correct?
). If you prefer to call, let me know…