@els would it be possible to add this to the agenda with the architects on the 18th? Alternatively I’d also be happy to contact them in writing.
@Lee : finally meeting them on wednesday.
Can you specify exactly what you want me to discuss with them?
The way I’d like to take this forward is to ask for a meeting with this Filip. From there the helping circle can then try to present a summary to the plenary.
they’ve asked that and relaunched it, and no answer so far. But i will ask it again.
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At the meeting with the notary on Friday, he mentioned something about creating an energy framework to sell and/or share excess energy generated by the Reef. If I understood correctly, he was advising us to move forward with that sooner rather than later. And I imagine, in terms of a sustainability helping circle, that it boils down to a decision about investing more in solar panels at the beginning to recoup costs later, and perhaps also generate enough to cover running costs for the community…
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linking here a recent post i think is related Reused Construction Materials: initial discussion
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energy cooperatives like brupower
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And are the positive energy districts (PEDs) being tested: “RESPONSE” project to develop Positive Energy Neighborhoods | Smartcity
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some updates…
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checked with the architects where they are with Filip Descamps : they have relaunched the request twice now and no reaction from his part. They think he’s either not interested or too busy and advise us not to count on him any more
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the architects received some updated price offers from the technical experts. They are mainly waiting for the one of B solutions , which they expect to receive after their holidays (beginning of january). So we will be signing the offers first half of January i guess, and starting discussions from mid january onwards, during 2 à 3 months. In this period the decisions about sustainability will be taken.
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In this week’s Team Building meeting (@reef-building ) we discussed the sustainability as well (I was maybe a bit too hasty to launch this topic without speaking to TB first, sorry for that).
Our suggested approach to that would be to organise a workshop about it on the next PM (Sunday 05/01) and turn it into a morning and afternoon session. The workshop open for those interested in the sustainability. It would probably also be a nice interaction moment with the current exploring/associate (?) members who didn’t have the occasion yet to come to a PM.- @joannes offered his help for this workshop.
- the goal of the workshop would be to get clarity on what ‘sustainability’ means for the group and what elements in this we find most important
- it would then be up to this helping circle to distill what elements of sustainability are most important (order of priority?) so that TB can clearly communicate to the architects/technical experts what it is we find important and for them to propose solutions to answer these needs, with the cost implications.
- I would - personally- also like to go and have a chat with Homegrade (https://homegrade.brussels/) after the workshop/vision on what is important to us, to have another view on things/what could be feasible,…
- @joannes, myself (and maybe sarah) will have a brainstorm about this workshop on Monday 30/12 19:00 online. If any of you would like to join, feel free.
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@reef-building : here is the document where we discussed with the architects what was included in terms of sustainability (internal link - see at the end of he documen). I don"'t think there is much that we didn’t remeber already though…
I don’t remember more than that, but maybe Els you remember other things?
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i wrote what i remember in the first post of this topic
hi @Lee @alberto @richard @els (aka ‘helping circle Sustainability’)
Talked to some people about this topic and not convinced any more that a workshop to ‘define what sustainability’ means is the way forward. I agreed with TB to delegate ‘how to proceed’ with this topic to this helping circle.
I don’t know if it’s better to get together during a live call or if we can work it out via ER.
Here is my thoughts about this:
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as mentioned in the first post: the reason i wanted to create this helping circle is to be (better) prepared when we start the discussions with the special techniques who will come back with questions to us concerning energy, durability, …My concern is that their questions might lead to big discussions (= long discussions) as at this point it is not clear ( for me) what the group wants/means when we say that ‘sustainability is one of our core values’, neither is it clear what budget we want to allocate to ‘sustainability’ (on top of what the architects have foreseen in the FS) or maybe we don’t want to allocate any extra budget…
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I understood that for some people it’s hard to say what sustainability can mean when it comes down to a construction of a cohousing, so a workshop might not bring much output.
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As the discussions with the special techniques will start soonish, our time is limited so the workshop approach might not be the most ideal either.
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So how to proceed? A workshop anyway? A survey? Working on a proposal , based on input of the architects/ visiting homegrade and only then going to the group?
Please share your thoughts?
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an idea…
soft shoe shuffle. a deep democracy exercise. This allows you to see how the group thinks about something.
Building on Els’ idea for a survey, I had an AI think about aspects of sustainability. ChatGPT - Sustainability in Co-Housing (
). We could do a survey and ask people to force-rank the listed aspects of sustainability by asking: “Where do you want The Reef to spend most money on?” Not all aspects listed in the answer are pertinent to The Reef. Some of them have already been met, some are simply impossible and others don’t cost anything at all.
() to @alberto’s point of rational use of AI: the energy consumption of generating this answer was equivalent to driving a car for 1m or flying in a passenger plane for 50cm; clicking the link is similar to calling a web page.
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I like this idea. As it is, the output is about 20% “grey goo” and needs substantial manual pruning. We need to take away stuff that is not relevant to construction (like governance methods, which we already have, or Public Transit Accessibility, which is what it is in Chaussée de Jette) and output derived from training the algo on meaningless corporate PR (“Striving for net-positive energy generation”, yeah, right). But after that is done, you get an interesting list. Also, this survey would include an “other” option for people who have ideas not already on the list.
Another way forward that I see is talk to another cohousing, maybe even invite someone to the plenary where we discuss this. But that would depend on the deadline! What’s the deadline on this?
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Since our slow decision-making appears to be impacting the timely delivery of The Reef, I think we must now move very fast on all fronts. For the sustainability front, the technical experts will start their work soon. We need to give them some direction if we want to maximally match their output to our needs & desires. Or face the cost of “change requests” down the road. For a hard deadline, I defer to @els.
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Agree. So let’s fast track it: survey + decision at one of the next plenary + slow-moving investigation for partnering up with someone to do some fancy retrofit stuff, but unmoored from the construction schedule.
I created a document at the top level of the team Building folder on NextCloud to parse the input. Please adjust:
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@Sarah and myself went seeing Mark, our coach today to confront him with what the notary advised us (Sarah will publish the minutes of that talk with mark).
We talked also about this topic, to get his advice on how to approach this: count on the architects, purely count on these technical experts, go and see homegrade,…?
He mentioned that homegrade is for private homes, but for a project like ours, we have a right to free advice/counselling from a facilitator of l’IBGE. He also mentioned that his experience with them was always quite positive. He said that they can also consult us on where we could get subsidies (and maybe needing to adapt our plans a bit now, so we can benefit from these financial interventions).
He said that the time to go and see them is now.
He also said that he wouldn’t ‘only’ rely on the technical experts, it’s always better to have a second view on things. He said not the rely on the architects for this topic.
He said it would be possible to aks this facilitator to explain what is possible on a sustainable level for our cohousing, but to see if he could give an explanation in the weekend, in the evening…
the deadline you are asking about: somewhere in the coming months. Last news: the architects are waiting for the updated price offer of B solutions (which they expect to have 1st or second week of January). Once they have that, we can make our choice who to go with. Than once we signed this offer, we need to see when they are free/when we can start the discussions. The architects indicated these discussions will take 2 à 3 months. There are a range of subjects to tackle (stability, energy-durability, accoustics,…), not sure in which order they will be tackled, so i would say it could be possible from the end of January onwards
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with all the info above, can we talk to each other briefly so to define what we want to do, who is going to do what,…
Here are some proposals for a brief (half an hour?) online chat.
- January 1st 19:00 - 19:30
- January 1st at 19:30 - 20:00
- January 1st 20:00 - 20:30
- January 2nd 19:00 - 19:30
- January 2nd 19:30 - 20:00
- January 2nd 20:00 - 20:30
- January 4th 15:00-15:30
- January 4th 15:30 - 16:00
- January 4th 16:00 - 16:30
- January 4th 16:30 - 17:00
- January 4th 17:00 - 17:30
- January 4tj 17:30 - 18:00
- January 4th 18:00 - 18:30
- January 4th 18:30 - 19:00
- January 6th 19:00 - 19:30
- January 6th 19:30 - 20:00
- January 6th 20:00 - 20:30
- January 7th 19:00 - 19:30
- January 7th 19:30 - 20:00
- January 7th 20:00 - 20:30
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