i wrote what i remember in the first post of this topic
hi @Lee @alberto @richard @els (aka ‘helping circle Sustainability’)
Talked to some people about this topic and not convinced any more that a workshop to ‘define what sustainability’ means is the way forward. I agreed with TB to delegate ‘how to proceed’ with this topic to this helping circle.
I don’t know if it’s better to get together during a live call or if we can work it out via ER.
Here is my thoughts about this:
-
as mentioned in the first post: the reason i wanted to create this helping circle is to be (better) prepared when we start the discussions with the special techniques who will come back with questions to us concerning energy, durability, …My concern is that their questions might lead to big discussions (= long discussions) as at this point it is not clear ( for me) what the group wants/means when we say that ‘sustainability is one of our core values’, neither is it clear what budget we want to allocate to ‘sustainability’ (on top of what the architects have foreseen in the FS) or maybe we don’t want to allocate any extra budget…
-
I understood that for some people it’s hard to say what sustainability can mean when it comes down to a construction of a cohousing, so a workshop might not bring much output.
-
As the discussions with the special techniques will start soonish, our time is limited so the workshop approach might not be the most ideal either.
-
So how to proceed? A workshop anyway? A survey? Working on a proposal , based on input of the architects/ visiting homegrade and only then going to the group?
Please share your thoughts?
1 Like
an idea…
soft shoe shuffle. a deep democracy exercise. This allows you to see how the group thinks about something.
Building on Els’ idea for a survey, I had an AI think about aspects of sustainability. ChatGPT - Sustainability in Co-Housing (
). We could do a survey and ask people to force-rank the listed aspects of sustainability by asking: “Where do you want The Reef to spend most money on?” Not all aspects listed in the answer are pertinent to The Reef. Some of them have already been met, some are simply impossible and others don’t cost anything at all.
() to @alberto’s point of rational use of AI: the energy consumption of generating this answer was equivalent to driving a car for 1m or flying in a passenger plane for 50cm; clicking the link is similar to calling a web page.
2 Likes
I like this idea. As it is, the output is about 20% “grey goo” and needs substantial manual pruning. We need to take away stuff that is not relevant to construction (like governance methods, which we already have, or Public Transit Accessibility, which is what it is in Chaussée de Jette) and output derived from training the algo on meaningless corporate PR (“Striving for net-positive energy generation”, yeah, right). But after that is done, you get an interesting list. Also, this survey would include an “other” option for people who have ideas not already on the list.
Another way forward that I see is talk to another cohousing, maybe even invite someone to the plenary where we discuss this. But that would depend on the deadline! What’s the deadline on this?
1 Like
Since our slow decision-making appears to be impacting the timely delivery of The Reef, I think we must now move very fast on all fronts. For the sustainability front, the technical experts will start their work soon. We need to give them some direction if we want to maximally match their output to our needs & desires. Or face the cost of “change requests” down the road. For a hard deadline, I defer to @els.
1 Like
Agree. So let’s fast track it: survey + decision at one of the next plenary + slow-moving investigation for partnering up with someone to do some fancy retrofit stuff, but unmoored from the construction schedule.
I created a document at the top level of the team Building folder on NextCloud to parse the input. Please adjust:
1 Like
@Sarah and myself went seeing Mark, our coach today to confront him with what the notary advised us (Sarah will publish the minutes of that talk with mark).
We talked also about this topic, to get his advice on how to approach this: count on the architects, purely count on these technical experts, go and see homegrade,…?
He mentioned that homegrade is for private homes, but for a project like ours, we have a right to free advice/counselling from a facilitator of l’IBGE. He also mentioned that his experience with them was always quite positive. He said that they can also consult us on where we could get subsidies (and maybe needing to adapt our plans a bit now, so we can benefit from these financial interventions).
He said that the time to go and see them is now.
He also said that he wouldn’t ‘only’ rely on the technical experts, it’s always better to have a second view on things. He said not the rely on the architects for this topic.
He said it would be possible to aks this facilitator to explain what is possible on a sustainable level for our cohousing, but to see if he could give an explanation in the weekend, in the evening…
the deadline you are asking about: somewhere in the coming months. Last news: the architects are waiting for the updated price offer of B solutions (which they expect to have 1st or second week of January). Once they have that, we can make our choice who to go with. Than once we signed this offer, we need to see when they are free/when we can start the discussions. The architects indicated these discussions will take 2 à 3 months. There are a range of subjects to tackle (stability, energy-durability, accoustics,…), not sure in which order they will be tackled, so i would say it could be possible from the end of January onwards
4 Likes
with all the info above, can we talk to each other briefly so to define what we want to do, who is going to do what,…
Here are some proposals for a brief (half an hour?) online chat.
- January 1st 19:00 - 19:30
- January 1st at 19:30 - 20:00
- January 1st 20:00 - 20:30
- January 2nd 19:00 - 19:30
- January 2nd 19:30 - 20:00
- January 2nd 20:00 - 20:30
- January 4th 15:00-15:30
- January 4th 15:30 - 16:00
- January 4th 16:00 - 16:30
- January 4th 16:30 - 17:00
- January 4th 17:00 - 17:30
- January 4tj 17:30 - 18:00
- January 4th 18:00 - 18:30
- January 4th 18:30 - 19:00
- January 6th 19:00 - 19:30
- January 6th 19:30 - 20:00
- January 6th 20:00 - 20:30
- January 7th 19:00 - 19:30
- January 7th 19:30 - 20:00
- January 7th 20:00 - 20:30
0
voters
What would that be?
you mean, what the advice/counselling could look like?
-
I asked mark if they/this facilitator would be willing to give us a presentation of what this could mean ‘sustainability’ for a construction of a new to build appartment block. The norms for new construction are quite high nowadays, so we don’t need to decide on a huge number on things (passive , heath pumps, solar pannels), so the question is: what is still a free choice for us, and is it affordable? Also maybe see what is possible on an individual level (so a private choice), and what is more on a common level (for everybody to agree too). He said that is sth (s)he could do for our group.
-
we could go and ask all our questions, like: is it worthwhile to go for a heath pump recuperatiing heath from the soil (or too expensive?) Mark mentionned they now have common heath pumps (instead of individual heath pumps): ask about that.
-
for me this facilitator could offer what we expected from Filip Descamps and what Lee was referring to in one of the above posts
fyi: Facilitateur Bâtiment Durable et Facilitateur Copropriété | Professionnel - Bruxelles Environnement
2 Likes
No, I mean I don’t know what IBGE is. But your explanation and links are helpful, thanks.
I like the idea of the facilitator. I think it’s exactly what we need. Do we need to meet for that, or can we just assign this as a task to someone? (happy to volunteer)
Besides that I would also have a look in our networks. It must be that within our LinkedIn networks there is someone who knows someone who would be willing to share their experience or views on sustainable / future-proof building?
Just on the odd chance of being lucky I sent a private email to this Filip, including a question for a recommendation (student or colleague).
2 Likes
no need to meet if @alberto and @RichardB agree to follow this approach…
You can contact the facilitator, the contact details are to be found in the link of this post.
I would like to be present in the meeting with the facilitator…
I sent a request for a meeting tonight.
1 Like
Ecobouwers/ ecobstisseurs might also offer useful info concerning this topic
Or
2 Likes
Also update: we received a message from Bruxelles Environnement that they received my email. They said that someone will get in touch shortly.
2 Likes
@reef-building @Lee /@RichardB /@alberto @reeflings
Fyi: Batibouw taking place this year from 15/02 till 23/02.: https://www.batibouw.com
Topic of this year ‘BATIBOUW mettra l’accent en 2025 sur le logement abordable et les nouveaux modes de construction et d’habitation, telles que les tiny houses, le co-housing , la construction hors site et la construction modulaire.’
there are not only ‘exposants’ but also conferences (Programme | BATIBOUW 2025)
Might also be usefull to (start to ) get an idea on what your finishings can look like
Might be usefull for the helping circle ‘sustainability’ (but not sure it is worth the time)
7 Likes