15:57:29 Thank you.
15:57:32 And the, you know, we need to extend those contracts by, by, as soon as possible perhaps right because of the of the.
15:57:46 They are writing out in December 31 on December 31 so it around as on leave until Wednesday.
15:57:57 By then we will try to have some things drafted, and I'm pretty sure she will then help us to do that she is very organized.
15:58:11 Okay, so that's the team right this is.
15:58:15 That's all of us.
15:58:17 Well that's, this is fantastic. This is really good.
15:58:23 We mostly save money on trips, when conferences.
15:58:33 Obviously,
15:58:33 whether any of them will have any person who knows.
15:58:39 Okay, so that's that's the most important thing for obvious reasons that I wanted to discuss with you. Now, going back to the methodological criticism.
15:58:54 I don't know if you guys you have you I would appreciate if maybe you the ethnographers group drafted something simple, start drafting something simple along the lines of answering those, those critical points.
15:59:17 Right, that what both of you money I need to color this set and you know if you have those materials that you've been collecting, you know, eventually all of his needs will need to be organized somehow for the sake of a report, but right though it may
15:59:50 Anyway,
15:59:50 they will expect that.
15:59:52 because that I already told you that they were kind of pointing out that
15:59:58 we have a lot of interesting and concrete and precise things to say when we talk about the project, but the written part, they said was not clear enough, and therefore they have all those questions.
16:00:12 Yeah, I didn't.
16:00:15 Whatever it was haste or whatever I didn't realize how, you know, detailed this this should be, and clearly it should have been more detailed.
16:00:25 How many interviews, can you do you can you tell us quickly how many interviews you have done. Each of you.
16:00:48 4834 4344.
16:00:44 So, sorry for eating I haven't eaten anything all day.
16:00:51 Grace, but I am I am closed behind, and I'll get you out.
16:00:57 What about young
16:01:00 john, and she you other than that, but I think between 20 and 30.
16:01:08 Oh, sorry. Yeah.
16:01:12 So I would have to leave for my dissertation meeting sorry.
16:01:17 Well, good luck. Good luck with that. Yeah, Thank you very much.
16:01:21 Take care.
16:01:22 Bye.
16:01:25 Just, just go quickly.
16:01:29 So, the thing is one thing is the number of the overall number of the interview that we have. And the second thing is, how many for each stage we have because if you remember when we started, we had a bit more, kind of,
16:01:48 let's say we end, we ended the project with our own projects you know this was part of the application so I know I was looking more at kind of.
16:02:15 For me, it was more about women Right. I mean, and that's like. So, in July we came up with this differentiation that includes the initial stage, and then the initial stage that we had since February with state have ended somewhat in May, I guess, and
16:02:30 then you had the second stage which we did work more closely on a similar areas with me any mostly gentlemen to be to. And then, and the first stage is like more going more into individual case base for the countries and this is yet to come as we agreed
16:02:50 in July. And we say, we have this document somewhere together. you can have it by inches.
16:02:58 I actually when I was sending the email to young about our oh yes you actually.
16:03:07 I think that there so you should have it. Okay, so I will read it, I will read it obviously.
16:03:15 Finally carefully and and but at the same time, if you guys could help.
16:03:21 As I said, you know, the, They, they have.
16:03:26 In practice, I believe, six to eight weeks before we will get the written report. Then we will have whatever another six to eight weeks whatever it will be to respond.
16:03:36 This is all too late.
16:03:38 And and and we need to keep moving because, you know, we cannot wait for that so but nonetheless, we will have to write the clear answers to the points raised in the written report.
16:03:52 So if we are prepared and it will be easy, right, we will just cut and paste and that's it.
16:04:01 So if you could describe also that that switch in the topics you know when it happened how many people interviewed under the older topic under the newer topic, but am I right assuming that the newer topic is generally well being, or something like that,
16:04:20 what you're right. I mean, the prime point, the primary point for our conversations I guess across the four is kind of, you know, impacts of coded and and kind of like personally but also socio economic I mean this is usually how we start our conversations
16:04:38 or at least I do and I think minor does as well. And it's a local Yes I do, I have the same way. So it's basically agreed we commit in July and we kind of kept it.
16:04:48 So the way we we do it we seek for people in, let's say online health related communities, and we do focus on coffee but only rejoin. Sometimes I started the conversation with like a current topic but still we get to me a good conversation into those
16:05:05 matters interest us and they are pretty much always the same they mean they have like a whole checklist in my mind and this is how it goes.
16:05:12 And they seem to be very easy to put into words and besides it is I already put into words so we may actually exceed the number of interest what to do.
16:05:30 And so I guess the more the merrier. As the more the merrier I mean that's obvious, the more we have no, I don't know if it even makes sense, we are assuming that will be going to the end of June, 22, about, I guess, like, 100 per person is something
16:05:45 pretty reasonable but most likely more right, or whatever it is, but that will be, you know, if we have the interviews you know hundreds, that will that know that the database of of words grows exponentially almost So, you know, Alberta likes to throw
16:06:05 those numbers that we have so many entries codes and, and how so many, you know, edges, blah blah blah.
16:06:14 But, yeah, that the one thing that since we are again and it's a kind of an inflection point.
16:06:24 As we are working through the code book with Wojtek and others we are coming back to, to, to this question.
16:06:34 Which way is better to treat the whole interview as one unit or keep chopping it down right and I know we endlessly discussed that we identified pluses and minuses but both sites.
16:06:54 I do you have any new thoughts on that right now the method is chop them down, according to kind of thematic units, because we want to avoid generating too many completely accidental edges, right.
16:07:14 I think we are good, it's good to stimulate the discussion and it works.
16:07:22 But it allows us to you know to focus on an entire interview as a separate entity because it's a whole different Fred.
16:07:29 And then in the same time you can use the writers ability so analysis, analysis which is, you know, sticking the project and seeing how it works out so I think it's on our side it's a bit annoying because we have to have this fake accounts and all this
16:07:43 nonsense by this kind of figure to state so it doesn't bother us.
16:07:46 Yeah so good.
16:07:48 Okay so right. Obviously you.
16:07:52 That's how it is. As soon as you described, you have at your disposal both ways of looking at it so.
16:07:58 Okay, so I guess that's all I wanted to say, I, I
16:08:06 don't see any other issue.
16:08:12 It is. Well,
16:08:15 Obviously one thing is clear that this attract attention and and people are really intrigued by it.
16:08:25 And it was good that the, the second reviewer was someone clearly from the cultural side.
16:08:32 We thought that she was an anthropology is a cultural sociologists and.
16:08:40 Okay, do you have any questions or.
16:08:47 Yes. Yeah, I'm sorry I'm speaking a lot at this meeting. I'm not annoying everyone
16:08:58 So maybe for the next meeting or maybe this is conversation we should have as a number first maybe with you young based on the feedback you got in terms of how you envision the next set of interviews whether we should keep it along the same lines because
16:09:17 I've got recently the feeling that since I'm focusing a lot on this likewise particular groups are covered related usually vaccine skeptics. I'm getting quite well not repetitive, but the material is kind of reoccurring the kind of themes that I'm getting.
16:09:38 So, it's a question of do we want to explore another part, or do we just take with this, and this is of course, this is something to think about.
16:09:51 For the next step. So, I'm just raising it. That would be good to kind of. Yeah, to, to clarify, if we want to do another 50 interviews.
16:10:06 We want to reach this like kind of more balanced, or do we just take with this ethnographic approach, and maybe just change it up a bit.
16:10:15 Any thoughts,
16:10:19 anybody.
16:10:23 I guess we can, we can maybe Wait, I'm sorry, part of this question to me, start with calling. You'll be got, and then I can see where you're going, because this will also tell us a lot about where we are going.
16:10:38 Yeah, that's what they mean. And sorry this is like, don't worry.
16:10:44 We're in Beirut.
16:10:48 Oh my gosh.
16:10:49 appointing pandemic.
16:10:51 In Poland, and they are waiting for the things to improve. So, I'm working from curious really good, but some things like soccer. Anyway, interesting okay so I keep saying they want to say.
16:11:07 Basically, I think I would maybe
16:11:11 because we could always come back right so we can now for instance steady pace if you like it you can, you know, figure out the more your case for tech and then go with it and then if when guys will call the database we have.
16:11:26 So you can always you know, get better. We need more and more head break, maybe have a fresh look at those, you did and then have this for fresh perspective of collecting new interviews, that's my fault.
16:11:40 Like, I mean this is so you can have you can have a break from what you have done so far. So the new chapter the new the new avenue like what you have to do with the populace in check, exclusively.
16:11:52 So, our wrap up my part and then I will go to go to Poland and then they caught the end, we will call this stuff and then we can go back needed.
16:12:02 That's my idea. What do you say,
16:12:06 I mean I think just doing more and more and more of the same, is not, it's not worth doing, they'll come a point when we've saturated, and particularly given that, you know, Dan and I are working on a paper without battle about reducing the number of
16:12:22 codes anyways.
16:12:26 Then Then, I'm not sure that's that's the best way forward. And given that sort of we have a particular focus for this. You know that will make a number of interesting papers and so I think it then might be worth, identifying, you know, as a result of
16:12:38 analyzing the first tranche of a new topic, and then go in a different direction.
16:12:44 So that we have two big piles of data to look at instead of one huge pile on a similar topic.
16:12:54 What what that subsequent pile would look like because that must be a better word than pile, and theme would would look like. I think is open to discussion, and we can either sort of pre decide or we can you know in line with our own interests, or we
16:13:10 We can either sort of pre decide or we can you know in line with our own interests, or we can see what emerges from the data which I suppose would be the more anthropological approach.
16:13:24 Well I, you know, I, Here's my fault that
16:13:28 we are and certainly the reviewers were interested in that question of broadly understood representativeness so who are those people will wonder what conditions, you interact with them and all of this.
16:13:45 So, also given the conversation with voting and I had yesterday, you know, another idea.
16:13:53 Different from from Richards idea would be to change not the topic. The keep the same, but make a huge effort to reach very different people, different group of people.
16:14:05 Right, so we would have the consistency across was that if we change also the topic, then we're.
16:14:13 Yeah, we may don't want to change two variables, right, like, in this case, unless you know the the other decisions will be to, I think, to do what Richard says but without them changing the group so the same group but different topic or diff the same
16:14:36 two different groups, the same topic.
16:14:39 I mean in the ideal world, we would have enough time right, just with those two variables we would have all four combinations.
16:14:50 But
16:14:50 I guess the realistic thing is to assume that we will end up in the vicinity of about 100 interviews per interviewer, but not refer 120 maybe something like that.
16:15:07 You know, I'm saying that also. Yeah, as I said for two reasons because writing and I kind of started worrying about it a little bit yesterday, just thinking about that, that fact that I presented to you earlier, right, that the survey shows that the
16:15:27 Polish population isn't the right whereas the, what people we have are mostly more to the left and but we could go to the people to the.
16:15:37 So we would go to the people to the right, with the same topic, but you know again it let's.
16:15:44 How about if we if each of you will create a spreadsheet or will create a carbon spreadsheet, maybe with different lists that people don't put their names or anything like that, who they are.
16:15:59 And, like, with a brief correct to, if possible, a characterization of their situation situate them on the political spectrum.
16:16:09 Generally, right, like, what more like, and then we will see what proportions we have so far.
16:16:16 Right.
16:16:18 Because you know, each guy, you described in a very clear way that you talk to the coffee deniers or something like that.
16:16:28 And you feel that the beginning to achieve the saturation.
16:16:34 Right, which is that, that actually the idea of the saturation sample right way which is done in this case studies I mean, the themes are beginning to repeat themselves okay then we are beginning to assume that you mapped out.
16:16:50 The most important themes that exist in a given community of this course.
16:16:56 But that would mean right on the basis of what you said let's move on to another community.
16:17:03 But that's that's those are my thoughts.
16:17:09 Richard
16:17:09 void raises his hand for me, people.
16:17:15 So just wanted to make sure, because when you guys speak of the same group, but different topic we don't mean like specifically the same respondents that have already been being interviewed, because, to my mind, it might be extremely difficult or in some
16:17:28 cases simply difficult to get back to those people who are judging from this small sample of interviews I have already coded were quite reluctant to participate, or at least were various costs and like providing the input.
16:17:48 So, we would aim at the same demographic in the scenario in which we would simply try to kind of like stick to the same route but just change the topic right and Monday it catches just just correct me if I'm wrong like Would it be possible to contact
16:18:09 the same people. does it matter, or movies would simply mean that will try to kind of like stick to the same demographic which would require like your young said, preparing kind of like an analysis, all be it.
16:18:28 It might be pretty shallow analysis of those people, political interests, cultural, political backgrounds beliefs, values, whatever mean possible it of course his second question is gonna be willing to talk to us again after giving us like an hour sometimes
16:18:50 hour and 20 minutes of their time already. And the third most important question is, would this be important significant to our project right because if, you know, obviously, when let's say we are talking about covered in the span of the hour conversation,
16:19:09 we don't just talk about covered and we get the kind of sense of attitudes opinions perspectives that are already included in that one interview so I think, reaching out to the same people again just with like a slightly different topic might not be really
16:19:26 useful for purpose so yes, I agree with our interviews I mean, I think we can, I can see it from both of us are really long, like I mean there I mean mine like average than an hour, and we talk about everything like I mean, like I go, I touch upon everything
16:19:46 everything you mentioned it during the project in terms of our interest within it. And this all kind of structured around in the little life story. So like to see how people change their political beliefs over the years and over the reasons and usually
16:20:02 goes really smoothly, you know just just, you know, kind of like forever keeping on kind of talking about it and open up and share what made them vote this way or nothing out there, or whatever.
16:20:18 So, of course, know, we can always go back, because people keep forgetting what they said, which we can use, you know, to see what when there's nothing changed also like as a mother, I lost two into three interviews because I was my recording up broke,
16:20:36 and I have to get back to those people and the way it is to ask them about.
16:20:41 And you political events.
16:20:46 Like, for instance like oh, this has happened.
16:20:48 I can I talk to you again and see what you think about it.
16:20:52 And this is actually quite interesting because, for instance, I will close the poll and it can be like asking my permission to reduce about the circle border prizes.
16:21:02 Right, so like hey I mean, because usually like. In most cases, I will tell them you know they give you hey I mean it's okay for you.
16:21:13 For some further comment and almost everybody says yes so I never use it now but it's always something I do just in case, whatever. I think about it, because when I address prepping the interview sometimes it's like know so they reach out and.
16:21:32 And there's an option.
16:21:33 If you do say what you meant was like I'm not sure.
16:21:36 In terms like, because I didn't we didn't we get you worried.
16:21:44 Like, I think me and cut pretty comfortable about how good our database.
16:21:49 So that's one thing.
16:21:53 Second, again, I think that kind of like, if we were to kind of try to match those people into some kind of like
16:22:05 matrix of again like political views or something that might be very difficult, we keep
16:22:14 having this problem with young when we talk about codes, we kind of like kind of try to map it out especially like we're now analyzing ideology and we are trying to match the existing codes into the traditional left right center,
16:22:32 three core to me.
16:22:37 But it's proving extremely difficult. And I believe that especially with an extremely rich, interviewed might be very difficult to try to put those people into some kind of like compartments they'll compartmentalize simply them properly.
16:22:52 That's one thing. Second thing item and I forgot, and the third one was that like, if we simply, kind of, Oh, Yeah, I remember, um,
16:23:05 Um, is it the case that like when you speak about some kind of like a saturation point that you reached with your respondents. Does it mean that like,
16:23:19 that also pertains to kind of like some details around the main topic that keeps kind of reoccurring or, I don't know if I'm making myself clear. I'm
16:23:32 certain elements, keep repeating keep popping up, Right.
16:23:38 They understand saturation that they're not telling you anything new.
16:23:43 Yes, yes, yes. Here's the thing is like you we get you keep you keep talking to same people who give keep giving us same answers, more or less.
16:24:12 fact that you're reaching to say kind of like, Okay, I'm a genius.
16:24:10 Smart very happy cuz it me because my, my sample is way more diverse and I don't have this spending as much or maybe even at all.
16:24:17 Also because Paul is like a little bit bigger than check to say it's time to be bigger and.
16:24:25 And then you are more focusing on like a day of extras and he just started long ago to change the shift so it's still time to, kind of, even this up a bit.
16:24:39 But, I mean, I don't know okay let's take on sugar because quite different, right. So, obviously, so this is why I was taking this about myself.
16:24:47 I just, can I just do.
16:24:52 Just Just one last thing, because if you're reaching to a pretty diverse group of people, and you get kind of this reoccurring or you keep getting those recurring themes coming back at you.
16:25:06 It's also finding right this this one.
16:25:09 So, I'm just just wanted to raise this point. But yeah, I was just wondering what would you attribute this
16:25:19 reaching the saturation point to. So, quick, quick, because the answer for myself.
16:25:26 I'm sorry if I'm annoying, of you, my too much but well.
16:25:33 So the quick answer is
16:25:38 interesting finding is that people who are considered those letters are way more.
16:25:45 They have more consistent views, which other.
16:25:49 They can, and then comes to the right. It's very, very diverse very different takes on various issues, so there isn't.
16:25:58 And there isn't like, I mean, logic behind it what the purpose is very complex, and for, I mean I didn't three here one set of answers, like every time there is something different every time there is somebody has some other reasoning for both parties.
16:26:16 So, and welcome to the next year or whatever so this is why I mean only get this situation and comes to like you leaving educated middle class intelligentsia young quote, like young voters, or if your supporters and and which isn't surprising, and because
16:26:37 they are pretty small group and pretty like the the leaving a pretty tight community all together.
16:26:44 they are pretty small group and pretty, like, the leading a pretty tight community all together like a family, have some common friends with some of those people so it's a matter of the specific specificity of this, of this group.
16:26:55 Though there are differences in the approach to Muslim nation, for instance, or this obligation of a nation because most people are have this, they like the value nature, and they have this kind of spiritual, take the back end would fall into the category
16:27:10 of, like, new age, wherever it's complicated anyway. Don't get me started.
16:27:17 I just thought I'd before it gets too crazy. Well they want to ask you actually like, do we need to have those broadcasts we have to put people into like the left, center and right the tiger is it doesn't make sense for us like we do have to do though,
16:27:33 reason why I mean we like, we haven't, I haven't the back of my head right so some for, but then at the same time, like, how does it relate to, like number, as we said proportions important more right wing, so much more.
16:27:50 So they have more right wing interviews or not.
16:27:53 I mean, tell me I will do just
16:27:59 right and then like on the internet, they can find you and I mean I can just keep it, keep it proportionate based on like voting versus how many people voted for the parties but then this would involve people that have almost 40% of the society doesn't
16:28:15 vote on who I am.
16:28:18 And also, I also thought as popular vote. So,
16:28:24 I mean, Devin the questions so then this is like.
16:28:27 Should we keep it personal like traditionally just for the sake of practice city. No.
16:28:33 Okay, let me
16:28:37 recharge.
16:28:38 Maybe you because, and then I will, I wrote down.
16:28:43 Say, I mean, firstly it's not a sort of a question to minute guy I mean are you able to sort of pre determine the, the, the sort of demographic profile of the people who speak to because in in the German case we're just struggling to get anybody to speak
16:29:00 to us. And so this idea that we could say okay now we've done this, now we've done sort of left green voters now we're going to sort of focus on right.
16:29:10 I'm not sure it's necessarily an option for us because we, the right, just don't want to speak to us we sort of email them we, And then it's not helped by Facebook shutting down all of the, the anti Vax German groups, which were initially a good source
16:29:25 of.
16:29:27 So that's more sort of a methodological thing. And then the other point about saturation.
16:29:32 And whether to keep going. And once you you're not getting any more views from the left, actually more relates to Yan to, to our battles article about you know one of the reduction techniques being about the, the extent to which a particular theme is
16:29:50 dominant. And so if we decide. Once we've reached saturation to stop then that would sort of have an impact on that reduction technique. And so whether that's something we would need to sort of bear in mind there interesting point.
16:30:09 I didn't think about it, you're absolutely right. That, that, Yeah.
16:30:12 But, I may be stopping at saturation isn't such a good idea then
16:30:30 let me take this Yes, if this.
16:30:24 You know what, once the paper is finished the will of course, everybody's welcome to, to have a look at it.
16:30:32 Anyway, we will present it to you very soon. Like I hope within the next few days I will put several more paragraphs and our part is not big anyway.
16:30:46 So here's my idea.
16:30:50 And first of all, I would stay with the same range of topics, so we keep something constant. I mean, that's my, my instinct is also, I think, pretty clear from what she said the reviewer that you know she was kind of.
16:31:13 Okay, assured that at least there's something that we have some common base.
16:31:20 When we are switching from conversation to interviewing, and now we are also.
16:31:25 And I should have remember that but manga reminded us that we also kind of switched a little bit topicality in the interviewing, but my second idea is this, I, I, you know.
16:31:42 Maybe it comes from the fact that I was trained both in sociology and anthropology, they, they, they, they, I understand.
16:31:54 And I've done both, and I understand it, the pluses and minuses of both methods.
16:31:58 I do like to have in the background of my anthropological digging into something, a review of the situation on the more abstract level which is surveys.
16:32:14 So, surveys in the room, in those all those three countries give you very rich information on people's political choices and orientation.
16:32:25 Beyond voting data so we don't need to repeal we, it's true, absolutely central was manual said that in Poland there's this huge group of non voters. But if you cut the, the information differently, you get the information about political views.
16:32:43 We know, for example, quite a bit about the political views of non voters of the still some kind of debate from other kinds of data.
16:32:50 But anyway, we get the general picture so imagine that the survey data by large, say, give us the following information. The society is divided 60 right 30 center 10 left for the sake of argument right.
16:33:08 I think that ideally idea. I mean, it was, of course, some degree of imprecision approximation, our sample of the people who are interviewed for the ethnographic project.
16:33:23 It will be roughly the same proportion.
16:33:27 I think that this will you know people who will be read our stuff will be reading our staff who will be reviewing it will respond well to to such an effort.
16:33:41 That's that's my that's my, my sense.
16:33:48 What do you think, Okay, um, it may be difficult and you know like we will, you know, we know if we say, this is what we are thinking about, and we attempted that and then you know Richard gave us already in a very important story about that it may not
16:34:10 work.
16:34:11 Well then, okay, and we just put it we have to this this this was very clear in yesterday's meeting you know whatever you do, may have a record of it.
16:34:21 So, the reader will know you know it's like an appendix or something, right, that we, that, that, that data generated through whatever method, particularly talking to people that there is some, there is information about how it was generated.
16:34:39 And this is, you know, obviously very
16:34:45 reasonable request.
16:34:47 We, we are aware of that so and now we are doing that but anyway we can.
16:34:53 Anyway, you know, Peter.
16:34:56 Yeah, I mean, it's, this is perfectly fun and it makes sense but it's quite different from what I understood. Up until now, in terms of the sample because this kind of representativeness, I, you know, I can change it up and kind of start now from now
16:35:16 on until until the end I can kind of, you know, be more focused to achieve this kind of thing. But I remember this summer when we were discussing like kind of focusing on vaccines and stuff I expressed this concern that this not perhaps representative
16:35:30 enough. And I don't remember if it was you arguing that or just generally if we reach the conclusion that focusing on people that are skeptical to let's say vaccination focusing on people that are prone believing conspiracy theories somehow emulate some
16:35:49 sort of basic principle and populace thinking in terms of math and you know this sort of stuff. So, this is then why I kind of took that path and thought, okay, makes sense, and it really like I think what we really need to clarify is how much we want
16:36:04 to target the people prone to populist thinking or voting, which is obviously, you have to really focus that on those people, and maybe interviewing the rest of the society that maybe doesn't have populace thinking doesn't tell us much about that.
16:36:33 Um, so yeah, I mean this is just like to, to kind of have a comment on that and whatever we collectively decided is important for the project, of course, we can implement because this money is set on the internet, you can literally you know find and target
16:36:50 anyone so yeah.
16:36:54 To add to this, my, my take was a bit different I wouldn't talk to people who would be perceived would vote because they would talk to I have spoken to people in diversity of political views.
16:37:10 Indian. Everybody had something to say about politics in the country that are oppressed.
16:37:18 So, anyway, and the topic was always somewhat talked about, and the term itself, somebody who didn't appear at all but we'll talk about governmental policies and.
16:37:33 So, yeah, but then.
16:37:36 Okay, I.
16:37:40 That's all I have to say I'm confused. Right.
16:37:44 Yes. So, yeah, that's the problem, and I remember now that conversation the summer, and
16:37:57 I tell you.
16:37:59 Yeah, we should have been patched more.
16:38:02 Whatever decisive and stick to one plan but we didn't.
16:38:17 I don't know I you know I some, yeah.
16:38:32 I am angry with myself sometimes but sometimes I see nothing like there's some price to be paid to this kind of a productive methods that.
16:38:32 And that's partially that but also, I tell you to events, right so like through things happened that forced me, make me think about.
16:38:43 Number one was the interview, right, like they raised it, they, they, they were clearly interested in that question.
16:38:54 And the broadly understood represented witness or the origin of the data. But, but perhaps even more important, is our work with, with Vojtech because we we kind of, you know, as you know, we are mostly reading back and we're reading back a lot to the
16:39:13 material as we are recording to the very first first face material, which is the material generated by the conversation.
16:39:23 Right.
16:39:25 That conversation is heavily skewed to the left, that's that's what it is. That's how it was, you know, those are urban educated young left leaning people.
16:39:37 So, this is what happened to us several times, including yesterday, particularly because we're trying now to clean up the ideology, just get a very central to that very issue read discussing at the moment.
16:39:50 And we realized shit you know this is all kind of left stuff, you know, we want to what's what's, what what's happening on the right, right at that from that segment of what we have.
16:40:04 I know we have more, but we're looking back is what the codes are attached to.
16:40:10 And that prompted those two events prompted me to start that conversation with you, which now we have, I think clarified as conversations, often do a with, with a bunch of intelligent people that we, we have, they the options, and they are I think particularly
16:40:37 and no one. One is, that's college representativeness study of life with an attempt to detect politics right in it. Any type of politics and second option is what would the ethical formulated very clearly what her understanding and approach was it to
16:40:59 hair material.
16:41:01 People prone to populate as you phrase that this is very nice like, which is really different approach.
16:41:09 So now we are at the point where we are planning for another half a year.
16:41:17 That's the point where we have to make a decision.
16:41:24 Just to just to calm ourselves down a bit as I wrote in the chat, the kind of methodological approach we are having and, and the sort of groups are online spaces we are searching in are the same or consistent across the for us so it's not that you know
16:41:43 yet guys talking randomly to right wingers and money is talking to left wingers and it's all like up in the air I think we will be able to justify that like in our right up.
16:41:55 So, so yeah so we were like, in terms of presence we're in the same online spaces.
16:42:02 And then that spaces in the, in the network public sphere.
16:42:10 However, I was being to a whole bunch of different people, and the representative of what Polish side is Amy, without being too you know too strict because sometimes you can just refuse somebody when they talk to you, you just want them because they talk
16:42:28 to and we appreciate and the waitlist one more.
16:42:33 And then it was doing the focus on the anti vaccine.
16:42:39 So we have it a bit different as I guess I guess but then we can kind of like, I can go into more anti boxers, and if I can go more into the generic.
16:42:49 And this way we will have religion little samples and we have will have two different sets they're more general dinner.
16:42:59 Scholars, and was there ever a variety which I already have an orgasm head and then the device in scepticism more of a corporate focused as such right when probably quite, quite popular in China.
16:43:14 I mean I haven't because I do this for my PhD, I'm doing my PhD anyway, so I can easily.
16:43:24 Because I usually do anyway.
16:43:25 Okay, so if we can we then I understand you're proposing a solution, which will be a.
16:43:35 There will be roughly right very roughly to sort of types of people, one will be.
16:43:44 It cost free praise prone to populism, the other will happen.
16:43:50 As you said, Yeah, and in and then we may say, our goal will be whatever 5050, or maybe we can find the data and reflect more or less like the general distribution of those two types in the society.
16:44:09 And that, that will be great. I mean if that's fine you know so when we get to the point of 100 120, interviews, and we have roughly, those proportions there.
16:44:21 And then that's, I think, you know, correct me if I'm wrong I think it's pretty justifiable like everything that we already said like, okay, we are looking to those two broad categories.
16:44:35 And, and, you know, we can even say that the goals, it are somewhat different.
16:44:41 Because you know when you're when you're digging to those more prone to populism you're you're kind of getting more stuff, what's going on in this right wing mind sort of approach, and the other is, you know, what's going on in the rest is sort of and
16:44:59 you know what choices do they make how they think about issues, and so on.
16:45:08 A.
16:45:17 So okay so it either way. I mean, but yeah I think this is a good kind of a decision. For now, a clarification. But either way, he let's create that spreadsheet right so we will cover kind of a sense which will, you know, treated as the work that we will
16:45:31 have to do anyway.
16:45:33 For some kind of appendix or something like give us a sense of what this data is coming from. In our reporting in our publications. So you know it doesn't need to be super tight and, you know, but this let's get this sense of what a roughly the proportions
16:45:51 In, given those two categories which I'm not very precise I understand, but you know like I suspect that after each interview, you get a sense whether the person is more leaning this way or that way.
16:46:06 So you can just make a note of it but I suspect you're doing that anyway and, and in your notes. So, the.
16:46:14 Yeah, that would be super, you know, that, that they particularly she, her name is fi forgot her last name. She, she was kind of constantly coming back to that.
16:46:28 I want to have a better sense of you know what what the nature of your data
16:46:37 right and and the she was like, Alberta, of course was, you know, razzle dazzle with with the, with the visualizations was pretty nice and impressive and talk of nods and edges and reduction techniques.
16:46:54 But she was more kind of returning to.
16:46:59 Yeah.
16:47:18 What's the data particularly that they use the the famous phrase, no matter how sophisticated The technique is garbage in, garbage out.
16:47:12 Right, so the.
16:47:14 She kind of, you know, was interested in bed.
16:47:20 What kind of garbage we're putting each machine or maybe it's a quality stuff.
16:47:25 But she didn't know.
16:47:29 And, again, they would have to go to the report. Anyway, to the reviewers.
16:47:37 I mean the response to the reviewers.
16:47:40 Okay.
16:47:44 Okay, so I think we covered a lot very important stuff, you know like, really.
16:47:52 Mid mid mid term review of what we are doing. I mean, now we realization that we have time and resources.
16:48:11 We are organizing ourselves for the next stage in terms of finances and structure, and also we've had a very meaningful discussion about the content of all of this right how we're going to do that what we're going to focus on.
16:48:20 So that's a very productive meeting, anything.
16:48:25 We didn't talk much about coding by Nick has something to say, Yes, okay. Sorry, I didn't see.
16:48:33 Yeah, we haven't spoken much about coding because not much coding has been done over the past week, for obvious reasons. Um, yeah and, Yeah, doesn't matter.
16:48:46 So I just wanted to object, quite firmly to this distinction between say populism prone, and the general public or something, to my mind, we are all prone to populism different sorts of it.
16:48:58 I think that, like the distinction between I mean, the possibility of the existing like a lot left wing populism and then writing populism is pretty non controversial, to my mind, there is also the option of having like the centrist populism because I
16:49:10 So, to my mind, there is also the option of having like the centrist populism because I believe that there can be like this extreme center position in the political space is not extremists, you read our definition of poppy.
16:49:20 Yeah, yeah but but still like I just I just got this kind of like something thing in my head that I just had to throw out there in front of you that like, how would you define susceptibility to populists agenda for ideology.
16:49:43 I mean, that may have to become like worked out in the paper or something, you might not have the answer ready but maybe you do know, because it doesn't we have like an operational definition that you know the working papers and it's essentially this
16:50:03 people versus elites do division. I mean, this is very broad, of course, but
16:50:13 I don't know like what I may be like, people from the populace thinking doesn't really maybe make sense but if we want to narrow it down like more specifically would be people voting for the kind of right wing Populist Party is that I will start getting
16:50:34 through questions of have covered, because somehow they these things merge. You know when, for instance, I wasn't talking to so many people like Babbage voters, because somehow they are not so represented in this kind of anti Vax communities but it's
16:50:52 more people that would vote for a communist party or this new kind of quite far right, new parties that, you know, and the box and kind of skepticism of covered was very much on their agenda, but with a lot of kind of other things attached to it so can
16:51:12 I. But, but you know my sample I mean I wasn't just talking, I mean, out of this 42 interviews, if I say that, under 30, or let's say 28 would be in this category and the rest is also I also was trying to kind of not just focus on them so I have also
16:51:32 other other samples that I found through this online spaces.
16:51:48 I can I could add something to what deca said, I think, a purpose, or more on the far right is was inspired by what john was doing in Germany, and then somehow it is in between me and john because I wasn't I wasn't focusing on the right thing because
16:51:54 Paul is a bit complex, and it's up this card and many less being voters are supporting some of the largest Justice Party etc. It's super complicated, and then we didn't really, we, we said that from the beginning, let's focus on what I really understand
16:52:15 about ourselves more to see what people understand by it and to understand how they perceive what we perceive as populace and then we didn't pursue this says blah blah blah.
16:52:25 Right. So, like, you know, getting back to our research questions, and.
16:52:31 So, like, you know, getting back to our research questions, and. Anyway, I can, I can
16:52:35 do more interviews with people who are hesitant to vaccinations, because just because it has them, and we have time for me to do it, and then still do more stuff, it'd be some other new things that we think about in upcoming months, you know we are like,
16:52:50 we are very, like, we are another first here in this project we're really good at doing things at Hawk, you know you tell us we do, because of the week, it's really good to do with whoever they make actual This works what way better because then we can
16:53:04 you know maybe just kind of snappy and they'll either what you need and then.
16:53:09 Yeah. So, there's lots of time for us to, you know, whatever there is needed, according to you and for changes. So, let's not have not to get too depressed about it.
16:53:23 The pessimistic.
16:53:26 Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your attention.
16:53:36 Sure, no this is, thank you for your declaration of support and, but I know why did I do, I wouldn't worry about you know that those are the populace can be supported across the board.
16:53:43 What you said of course is right.
16:53:55 I but I read understand what he said you know make a very general sense that you know there are people who are leaning more towards the right.
16:53:55 And there are people who are leaning more to the left, meaning leaning to the left, it's you know also you can think about it, you know, more pro liberal democracy more kind of anti liberal democracy, right, and and that's all and then it is a clear pattern
16:54:12 in every country around the world now that the anti boxers are massively on the side of anti liberal democracy, or they do not care about it as much and so on.
16:54:26 But in. In addition, you know, maybe we should have, and I will gladly do that, go over our definition of populist one more time and maybe discuss it, because it is five points.
16:54:40 It is not just people against the elite. It is five points and I, you know, despite of the fact that we've had this definition. I certainly have it in my head for three years now we're so I I just last night I had some additional thoughts.
16:54:58 I think that definition generates incredibly interesting sort of
16:55:06 provocations, in terms of how to think about the political ideologies and people's political choices. So I will gladly talk about it, because I think it is.
16:55:20 You know the very fact that we have it in five points is is producing quite a bit of discipline.
16:55:31 This should i mean i wish everybody in the project paid attention to it because you know this is one of the criticism. In general, I mean the biggest greatest is I didn't tell you that is that we are lacking the theoretical focus right that the reviewers
16:55:47 and I admitted that that I neither do I.
16:55:51 Fortunately, at this stage we are the stage still of kind of amalgamating and creating a synthesis The way I see that we are not there yet at all. And the reviewers said you know what, why is it all about you, they said you have fantastic material.
16:56:18 Remember I told you but you know what is this, where's it all going in terms of a coherent whole.
16:56:15 And obviously, you know, in the next few weeks I'm going to write a short paper on, and I'll propose it to the seminar, to the whole pop rebel community and, of course, you guys are also invited and we will discuss it.
16:56:29 So, it is like a sense of positive thing about, they were very clear about it and I think that's part of our general frame.
16:56:43 Our final outcome also in terms of some kind of general statement.
16:56:54 It part of it must be, it actually is pretty central part, our definition of populism and our.
16:56:55 This simply and hopefully adherence to to it.
16:57:00 So, you know, at the end of the, of the meeting yesterday, I, I knew it was coming. So I had the picture of that famous Indian fable about six blind men, studying the elephant, right, and each of them things that something different and I said, Yeah,
16:57:22 this is where we are in the project and now the point is that all those blind people need to collect their hands and.
16:57:48 That's
16:57:45 what we will have to do and this.
16:57:49 This is one of the reasons that I wanted to have this conversation, you know, under this general slogan of disciplining ourselves.
16:57:59 Now, the project so far was a little bit. Actually Vela, one of our colleagues road today.
16:58:07 The.
16:58:09 I'm not sure that our friends from Serbia were very happy but velo said with apology but said we are balkanized in the project and we need to, kind of, but this is what the North, European says he is from Estonia.
16:58:41 We are you suggested four o'clock for a meeting and she's replied saying that she could do four o'clock. When did you reply, I thought she was not available.
16:58:42 That's why she sent me an email half an hour ago. Huh. Okay, well,
16:58:50 I cannot.
16:58:53 Okay, so I'll have a meeting with this already scheduled with the TCA about okay that's fine, I'll, I'll just reply to your email and say, well, we can talk next week.
16:59:07 Yeah.
16:59:08 Yep. Okay, we can, you know, if it's an urgent meeting. I'm also flexible to reschedule. Whatever.
16:59:18 What would you be able to meet with me at 12.
16:59:24 hours time in one hour time. Yeah, yeah, that's that's that. You sure.
16:59:32 Yeah, for me it's no problem.
16:59:35 Thank you very much, then. Okay, so let's meet with with that was just that.
16:59:51 Yeah. so either he okay he's got so 1130 Okay,
16:59:58 so it will be your 530.
17:00:02 Okay, guys, sorry, sorry that it was so long but obviously they're very serious issues right and and we do you feel that we are more or less on the same page, both in terms of the most important part right now is the, the organizational stuff extension
17:00:27 of contracts and all of that. I think we, we are clear on that. In terms of of the research strategy. We will, we, we can continue this conversation but particularly, we can, you know, we'll have the minutes, and we can.
17:00:50 Let's continue next week and let's take a moment to to wrap it up. Okay.