15:34:05 You know at this point.
15:34:08 What What if there's something that strikes you as odd or wrong, then, then that's. Let's talk about it obviously some of it will become more clear.
15:34:20 When you restart coding, obviously.
15:34:27 The ideologies proved to be very time consuming because initially we put there, a lot of stuff and then we started realizing going step by step but some of them, which is of course, do some considerable degree arbitrary.
15:34:43 Some of them we saw rather as values. Some even as actions.
15:34:49 Some actually his emotions not too many but but eventually we ended up with the much smaller list is streamlined somehow organized in the way. I tell you one very key decision was bad.
15:35:09 We started initially with the idea that the ideological spectrum has seven points like center and then three intensities of the left for center life through to extreme left.
15:35:24 And the same thing on the right.
15:35:26 And we thought, you know, theoretically it would be very useful, of course, to have information like that.
15:35:34 For example, to make, be able to make a distinction between center right conservatives and extreme right, which increasingly plays the role in all kinds of analysis of this phenomenon.
15:35:48 Around the world, but we realized looking, we spent a lot of time looking at actual examples and annotations.
15:35:56 And we were unable to really make this distinction from the concrete material, it's too difficult. It's to fine tune it makes sense, theoretically, but when you look at the way people talk.
15:36:08 It's not clear. So basically we reduce the tool left center right.
15:36:14 So examples such decisions, you know, and so you will see that's that's all of its there.
15:36:22 It was kind of nice and rewarding to see you and we're having some idea of this should be going from ideology somewhere else.
15:36:30 Oh, where should we go over here to be go where, where does it belong in terms of Z's and wise, then we would kind of predict where it should go. Then we will check out, it was that okay it like so that, like, you know, gave us some come for that what
15:36:50 we've done before.
15:36:54 Made some sense.
15:36:56 And so that's that's that's that's it that's where we are, but by and large, you know, we will be finishing formatting, all of them all spreadsheets will look the same at the end.
15:37:09 The kind of a model is I think in actions.
15:37:16 Of course, if you remember that the problems are pretty pretty developed, but that's we we decided to kind of look at it at the end.
15:37:27 Oh, I guess that's all right. Wait.
15:37:30 Yeah, that'd be one more thing while working on ideologies certified way by my for my voice but
15:37:38 I'm trying to
15:37:44 recover from some inflammation and so it's either way, we realize that methodological sound distinction between Bible code.
15:37:56 And the code.
15:37:59 Put.
15:38:00 I mean, which which we decided to pop up as a chain like double quotes.
15:38:10 Suppose,
15:38:14 That's my advice.
15:38:18 Please.
15:38:19 So, We have this distinction stay we had a code.
15:38:24 Or like communism, and we could have like three versions of this given code word like communism just in its own which would denote like communism, or any reference to communism as defined by some political theorist, then we could have communism, like
15:38:48 single voted quotes, and that would be something that people call communism, but it's not like to communism and communism and and Burton double quotes, which would be an invite code.
15:39:02 So we decided to get rid of that, basically, maybe drivers, like fast proclaim I can buy Home Depot, you.
15:39:12 Okay, so, um, and people can stay, but it will be very difficult to kind of introduce anybody's decoding process using the code have been created and explain, specifically, when to use this single inverted quotation mark
15:39:36 code.
15:39:39 That would probably affect our ethical reliability in a in a bad way. So, we're kind of like suggesting that we should get rid of this application.
15:39:52 Because again, it turned out that it's very murky.
15:39:58 Although again, I admit, that sounds great on paper but but in practice, it's very difficult to use consistently.
15:40:11 I don't know if I explained it properly. But,
15:40:17 yeah.
15:40:19 But basically, we kind of in several places, it was already. We've already done it said, the single quotes are double quotes and no quotes were merged because also because the number of annotations was was absolutely minimal so it was.
15:40:38 Yeah, that's like it's one of those decisions that's basically someone talking about communism you know and then out that will show.
15:40:49 And of course, someone who wants to write about how the concept of communism functions in this community of this course then can dig into each specific instance and, Yeah, go deeper.
15:41:09 I mean, that's, that's always the very important thing to keep in mind but every any specific issue, one can go back very quickly that that's one of the benefits of this system very quickly click click and you are in the text and you can start reading
15:41:27 the actual text.
15:41:31 Okay. So do you have any questions or comments on that.
15:41:38 So that's that that's the biggest thing, obviously, as I said, we will try to be done by the end of January.
15:41:46 Now, so, ethnographers, where are we what what, how many like interviews we have, what are you planning, what's happening.
15:42:02 Okay, um, then my view on that. So, yeah, I mean, as we talked last time we have more or less around 60 interviews right now they are finally structured, according to the criteria that we agreed on earlier this summer so we have one chunk.
15:42:28 That is the first month that Islam, the first month we were on this was more or less, based on our own our own context they came in with. Then we did that, based on political Fenian Express online.
15:42:45 That was another chunk we did. And the last days we've been engaging with people discussing are looking for health advice, online in online space so let's say we have more or less, these three different sources of our interviews.
15:43:04 And right now with money are we are we are we just agreed that we will put together a spreadsheet.
15:43:11 Kind of listing all the interviews we've done so far and marking kind of a general like a very basic information about each soul, like where did we find the person was kind of political spectrum, are they own.
15:43:32 What kind of political spectrum, are they on. And based on that we can then do what like where are we going to go next, with ethnography because on the last meeting we had, you mentioned that you have to look for a bit more like an island.
15:43:49 So that is something that will be good to clarify or specify whether this is really the way we want to say.
15:44:02 As I said me in my yard in close contact and, and we are meeting every week to kind of inform each other field works and and have a sample there at the end.
15:44:15 So yeah, I don't know if anyone has anything.
15:44:22 That's perfect. There you said everything that had to be said, I guess, like we are following the guidelines we said for the, for each other, Jennifer.
15:44:37 I'm sorry for the, for a tog refers in July. And now we can have can we could go to this first stage of interview, making during the field work.
15:44:46 That would be more country specific rather than like having this competitive angle in mind so
15:44:54 that's what we were thinking that start deciding on because we, we could start doing it maybe in February, the country specific interviews that are more about our particular popular isms rather than having more of a competitive angle in mind.
15:45:13 So, we are, we just want to hear your thoughts, whether it be things changing things are we should keep going with what we decided on in July.
15:45:23 Whether we think we should change the theme or we should keep going with what we decided on in July. I'm not sure I completely understand how operationally underground, what would be the difference of two approaches one comparative in one country specific,
15:45:36 you will play questions wrong or he would would choose one case, more, more of a case, you would focus more on one particular issue.
15:45:48 For instance, human rights for instance I know like economic crisis. And then we management something very specific and and there's something that is, it's good is a good example of populist policy politics for the country.
15:46:03 And, for, for instance, there are different things for Czech Republic, there are differences for Poland, and it could be taken as country specific examples of populist policies and involve plenty of list of things to choose from.
15:46:20 Most recently, the border crisis is a very interesting topic to take on very, very specific to Paul and, and, and in check out there are other other topics that came come up that are couldn't be kind of like found in Poland, right, and there
15:46:43 is always
15:46:44 know that, just to say that this wouldn't be more of an ethnographic approach let's say right because what we're doing. I know, obviously to cover it in depth interviews but because we're trying to reach out to a wider section of people.
15:47:01 It sometimes feel like for it to be like ethnography in the sense of the word is I am descended, you would, it would be more niche, which is something we could achieve that we do this country specific example you can go a bit more in depth and the bit
15:47:19 more particular rather than trying to be representative for general.
15:47:30 Well, I would be very curious, obviously, what everybody thinks but.
15:47:37 And here are my views, number one, that it seems like you're talking about two different dimensions of the material let's call it this way, one is themes, which can be more like designed to be comparative or be more country specific like the the border
15:47:58 issue. Right.
15:48:00 Right. So that's themes, second is the.
15:48:05 So I don't know how to describe it the sample the set of people you will be interviewed right and the other.
15:48:11 It is spread between as you called it is called general versus nice.
15:48:18 So you have two dimensions.
15:48:20 Now, I think, at this stage, the way this whole thing evolved.
15:48:29 The, the enormous value added and the strength of the project is that comparison that on the number of issues we will be able to show differences between polish and check political cultures or whatever discourses or whatever you call it, and that will
15:48:47 be tremendously valuable, but because it will. Yeah, it's something that not done that often. Right.
15:48:56 People do all kinds of ethnographic work on both sides, in both countries.
15:49:02 Here you will have something that, you know, it will be very striking I think, so I my view would be to keep in mind. Obviously that in each country you have specific events and specific issues, which obviously will color, what is being said and the book
15:49:27 is the issues are raised by people and how they are raised, but I would you know my idea would be to look for common topics and leave those specific topics, sort of, in the background, as the issues that push and color, the discourse right so for example
15:49:52 if we concentrate on the delivery of healthcare healthcare system, or housing problems. I'm feel some some of those issues that keep popping up and see the To what degree and how they are debated discussed in each country.
15:50:12 And then, in relation to that the issue of the border crisis will somehow come up and it's not to say that this is an important that needs to be pushed away.
15:50:23 But if we start. Okay, let's talk in Poland, about the border issue, then yeah we have no, not much to go on in in the check case, because that was not an issue that you know one issue that is, I think, very central and we talked about it a few times,
15:50:47 the question of the role of religion and religious organizations right. And I think we all are very much aware and quite a bit all of the has been written about it that we have this unusual case with those two countries.
15:50:57 We have roughly.
15:51:00 One of the most, if not the most religious country in Europe.
15:51:04 And we have famously, the most secular country in Europe.
15:51:10 So, Yeah, if we keep, I mean, and this doesn't mean that it is a spiritual or a religious, the checks, but it is different, right it function must work differently, and most impact of the number of issues different.
15:51:25 So I, I would you know i, and the religion and its role in all those crazy right wing discourses is so prominent but it seems to be like, obviously something we want to pay attention to, you know, one, one of the things that is, we may not go there right
15:51:44 but there is this whole debate over the crisis in a roof over that.
15:52:07 The mind that the checks complaint actually demanded that some of some of these operations will be shut down because of enormous amount of pollution, the polls the government refused.
15:52:08 And now, the European Commission imposed already sanctions on Poland, and they're paying some fine and so on and that may be oh and that's that takes you to the issue which is huge.
15:52:22 And we should have something on it.
15:52:24 I think we can, which is the issue of environment, and the climate crisis. So, hopefully when we, when you get to the point of talking about it, the specificity of the issue of Turo, which is exactly obviously between those two countries will come up.
15:52:41 But, so that's what I would do I mean we may want to revisit, really. Once again, a list of topics.
15:52:50 Right. So you guys have a more clear set of instructions so it will be the question to all of us. And maybe one of parts of the homework for the next meeting will be for each of us to produce the list maybe five topics.
15:53:09 So we all think in. In, for our ethnographers to keep in mind as the guiding themes for the, the, those conversations So okay, five topics by next Friday from everybody think think hard, I think again about the thing that we don't want still to ask directly
15:53:34 about populism but we want to get to all those kinds of.
15:53:38 So issues that one way or another may get eventually associated with with populace or, you know, particularly right wing populist thinking I mean one thing that you know I trying to follow this literature it's it's a complete explosion of course been
15:53:54 going on for a while. But there is a perceptible shift, to my mind, which, you know, some people are he also explicitly noted from talking about populism to talking about far right.
15:54:09 Right. So, yeah, we kind of have it because we have this far right popular is quite the center of our attention but you know it's slightly different angle so you know what that's one of the issues they be that the danger is diagnosed more, I mean, I guess
15:54:33 we can agree right now, it's coming from far right, then from populism per se.
15:54:40 Anyway, so next time okay five five themes. I'm making a note to myself, I actually. Yeah, I can produce this list. Now, but I will not.
15:54:51 I'm really curious to what everybody will have and then we'll have perhaps any interesting discussion.
15:55:01 Either you have your hand up and see why because it would be kind of the coven and go, Okay, this has been very prominent, I think from both me and Monica and like, you know, we've been, I think, finding out some pretty striking or interesting responses
15:55:23 and you know linking them kind of populism has been quite
15:55:30 easy it's not the right word but you know it's been coming out of the material. But as I said last time. I feel a bit like the kind of responses in the kind of connection from getting enough from people are quite repetitive because it's been going on,
15:55:49 like I've been kind of answering through the coffee prison for a few months now and so there is a pattern now that I see so I know that when you were hired the service.
15:56:09 the whole situation is evolving but it also will be to say, if the health and form it under Nick angle is something we want to pursue.
15:56:19 popular sentiment, or movement in relation to it. And obviously covered
15:56:32 Yeah.
15:56:33 Okay, So, on the topic is, you know, we created we decided to create a z category covered related in the code book. So we, you know, we will be reviewing it one more time.
15:56:48 But, yeah, that I think that will be interesting that we will be able to isolate it a little bit easier in the analysis from from the rest.
15:56:57 You know I one thing is because of this crazy race of the far right, that the issue of LGBT q plus people and homophobia is something that will tell bridge hard and, and German project, if we could generate a little bit more competitive material also
15:57:20 So on that issue we could have a triangle Germany Czech Republic Poland.
15:57:26 And you know there's a number of hypotheses that you can easily produce right the Germany, perhaps most liberal culture on that issue, Poland, I suspect most craziest and right wing and and Czech Republic, I don't know, somewhere in the middle, who knows
15:57:46 right because you know one issue that as you know we talked about it, which we have in one doctoral project actually supervised by by Richard in in the fatigue project is in on this crazy check Islamophobia which by in various studies is the highest in
15:58:05 Europe. So, what gifts right and maybe we could also have something on that, although, because they use of course the those those politicians and governments use those issues strategically.
15:58:21 This is kind of they stopped talking about it now, they switch to something else.
15:58:26 And it seems to be kind of public opinion kind of follows those, those cues. But yeah, that's another thing to consider.
15:58:38 Because the, that's a bit of a puzzle right take people that would be asking about those thing. Now, one thing I want to share with you we had a meeting.
15:58:50 Two days ago, I believe, two, three days ago Time flies with our project officers and supervisors, from Brussels.
15:59:00 It was a kind of a higher level meeting then then before it together with us, there was, there were representatives of two other consortium there are three major Consortium, at this moment in Europe, working on populism, we are one of them.
15:59:16 And we have, we will have the conference present set of presentations were just working now on the format of it.
15:59:25 For in Brussels.
15:59:28 Hopefully in person.
15:59:30 On May, the 16th.
15:59:32 So we definitely one of the things that we would like to feature in our presentation is that the some preliminary results of our work.
15:59:46 And, and, you know, you know, I am mostly Richard and I are in communication with work package leaders on it so we just started thinking about it then.
16:00:12 book job finished, and more material coded according to our new category so they can start digging into the visualizations in.
16:00:17 We have that paper on the method that Richard and I contributed to is finished and submitted to ethnography.
16:00:30 A. If you want, we should share it with you I think it's a very interesting paper with some.
16:00:38 So I know, I will. Maybe I will send it to you because I don't want to waste time now.
16:00:52 Is there anything else. I'm
16:00:58 so bad. Okay, so we have a job so we have to think about it and we'll revisit those themes and lock them in next Friday.
16:01:13 Is there anything else.
16:01:21 Okay.
16:01:25 So please, you know, everybody is do as much reviewing as you can, as you can.
16:01:33 aa Voytek told you which ones are ready which one will be ready soon we will be working over the weekend a little bit later right we've managed to do maybe another few hours.
16:01:46 So, some a little bit more will be done at the end of each spreadsheet, you will see the list of what we call the tail icon in Polish, which it is right now in most most of those categories we have suggestions what to do with them in one category I don't
16:02:08 remember now which one like most of them we just rolled out.
16:02:11 So there will be a lot of pruning also done but there is.
16:02:17 If you have any I mean if you have a time and you can look at the tables and see if have some idea what to do with them.
16:02:29 You know, sometimes it's very helpful to some have a fresh pair of eyes looking at those
16:02:38 static. I just was, I was driving so was it was it values and ideology right that are to go through okay so I recall properly thinking. Yes, and if we finish.
16:02:50 I mean, you, you.
16:02:52 Yes.
16:02:54 But actions actions are done I'm we saw, I guys everybody I mean it looks like it's done the bitterly then, when agents is very much done to write Vojtech in and people already looked into that
16:03:09 emotion.
16:03:11 You can look at emotions. Also, absolutely because you know this this is tremendous job that Erica did, and, and, if we just want to dig into that in order to kind of understand it better and appreciate what's done their places will be very quick and
16:03:31 that's that's that's you don't need to I think the moment bother with it because that's going to be very simple.
16:03:39 Yeah. And then we will let you know as we are done with maybe one more thing.
16:03:46 Turning our work, we created a separate group, as you probably know, called coded. It's been built.
16:03:52 But come up from kinda like, or.
16:04:07 No, we just we just took any any mentions of covert from other configuration and built it up kind of this way so it's pretty clean and it's also I think done I look at it seems
16:04:14 pretty exhaustive.
16:04:17 And, yeah, just that.
16:04:22 You go to yoga.
16:04:25 Yeah, I'm Thank you, just for the emotions, I realized already in December November that there is one problem that came out of the fact that I was working under a slightly different premise because I started doing sometime in June, which is my epsilon,
16:04:40 are not only structural quotes that are actually content based.
16:04:46 Those are not only structural elements, I do believe that.
16:04:50 Now, the methodology that we adapted is that episodes are purely structural, but there is an easy mechanical solution, basically taking the episodes and moving them one level down and try to devise new names 40 episodes, maybe, something like that, and
16:05:14 that should make it compatible with the rest of the UK, you cannot imagine how happy you made me this moment when you said that because that it took us.
16:05:27 Exactly, invented solution. And I forgot to tell you about it and you know I guess, great minds, things along the same line, we, we, yeah, it would simplify our life dramatically.
16:05:38 If excellence are empty.
16:05:41 But just containers so you have like 60 annotations under one.
16:05:50 Greg, or epsilon and, and each of them belongs to say five different axes.
16:06:12 The way we imagine that right we'll be able to switch between x and y.
16:06:13 Picture, and nothing will be kind of messed up, because if, if there are actual annotations in a graphics, then there's a bit, a bit of complication, and I don't want to, like, I would talk for a long time and I would actually say anything.
16:06:34 I just realized there isn't a better solution to it but no this is doable it's see it's easy and the problem is that, like, if we will just, you know, do it by machine learning until the system do this so okay but we need to probably explain to some other
16:06:48 people would we move with the codes.
16:06:51 We use them for decoding, so it should be obvious, and all the same, all across the board.
16:06:57 Yeah, so I'll get back to it and see how to do that so that it could make ontological Lee, somehow, is, is actually a kind of a bit like, you know, working on the crossword puzzle.
16:07:13 A bit like you have to come up with another way yeah I'll give you an example, yesterday we had consumerism.
16:07:20 So we looked into into the annotations we realize that's an important stuff, because people talk about, you know, having rather than being this at some point, we take remarks, a very important issue like attitude toward life, whatever.
16:07:36 And, and then so what do we do with consumers we want to have it in ideologies, but it has a lot of annotations, and we put it as a as a as a Why is an epsilon and.
16:07:48 And you know, then what do we do with it. But we put it as x, whose whose child isn't right.
16:07:56 What's the name of the higher level category.
16:08:00 And then we yeah we came up with something about the.
16:08:18 And then we found another child right because the trick is ok you came up with a new way then, well there's only one child well sometimes Okay, and then we came up, we found another child which was materialism.
16:08:29 So we checked in the annotations, because materialism can mean too many things Babs but certainly, but you know either. You know, Karl Marx materialism or materialism, you know I need to buy this new car kind of thing.
16:08:44 And we checked. You know, that's actually that tediousness comes from that we went into the texts.
16:08:50 We looked at the annotations and they were all about the second meaning of materials.
16:08:56 They were not talking about Karl Marx right so yeah that's but that's, you know, once we go through this exercise but now you see how that it takes time.
16:09:06 Then we have a sense that, yeah that those things are reasonably kind of meaningful. So, great so yes please, if you have any ideas on that kind of renaming cleaning children that job.
16:09:27 indeed, is there are no AE annotations directly connected to wise, only through children. Yeah, well, I'm I mean, I just like I probably will have to just sing one level up maybe I will even generate less epsilon, because I mean the quarter they feel
16:09:59 are consistent, you know, the only idea was that the Xs are kind of like offspring of those epsilon, that there are specifically distinctive. But, yeah, I'll just I'll just try to find the like an middle layer somewhere between that and the current epsilon
16:10:08 Sam, just relegate all the current epsilon to access and see how that works.
16:10:13 Okay, yeah, that's why the way yeah this is exactly how we working. Should we go up or down that's the decision, kind of.
16:10:22 Okay, there anything else.
16:10:27 Don't know what happened to Vojtech when
16:10:34 we take Are you there is collecting right now it's us. So we are meeting next week on Friday. Right.
16:10:42 Three o'clock again.
16:10:47 Yeah.
16:10:49 I mean, I don't know, I, I can always generate each time the new new new thing and posted right before the meeting or I can.
16:11:00 Yeah, I can also create a periodic Friday meeting 9am on my zoom in my zoom meeting room, and just send you this link.
16:11:15 It's like my opinion the same way like my office, the permanent one will be better so I can, okay good from the Google Calendar and it opens up like logging to as writers finding it somewhere and then clicking on it.
16:11:29 Yeah, and I won't be here for two weeks, I will be here next week but the next two weeks I won't be here. I will be in Senegal in Gambia.
16:11:42 Yeah. Okay.
16:11:55 Don't kill any lions.
16:11:47 Well, I think I'm afraid that I will be killed, because like white, white people working there are obviously having money.
16:11:58 I don't know, I but I'm vaccinated for like mi good like seven vaccinations in last one month.
16:12:05 It was terrible. I just got one today, against some meaningful cause then I have like three rage vaccines, until age vaccines like yellow fever and stomach diffuse or something so it's terrible.
16:12:21 Every, every Friday good like.
16:12:25 So hopefully I won't be like ill with anything but are still, it will be interesting how dangerous it would be people say it's, it will be little bit dangerous so people say it's dangerous.
16:12:39 Yes.
16:12:43 They want to like rob you like everywhere almost so really yeah I imagine I imagine like my, I imagined will I will be lying on the beach, and there will be like seven guys coming around me and like telling me like Give me your phone and money are we
16:13:00 going to beat you.
16:13:02 So, I will try to give them my money and cell phone, and they will meet me anyway probably where, where did you get this information from.
16:13:14 Well, I will.
16:13:17 It's just like, urban legends. No, I think it's in, I heard it, it's in, it's in Brazil like very often and I think it's like very similar thing to this but I think they're not that much used to tourists so they will be like more like surprised that there
16:13:35 is someone really white there so it will be, I have never heard this thing. And no, no.
16:13:43 But last last year when I was in South Africa, they were telling me like it's dangerous don't go anywhere after 4pm go always with someone be in a car, don't don't walk.
16:13:57 So, and we will be walking there but uh yeah but it's also the Africa, they're not used to the dynamics like between Biden, like people it's like different, I think in this area.
16:14:09 So it will be interesting.
16:14:12 So I'm preparing for the worst. Someone like trying to think like, where to hide money and bank cards and cell phone, and and taking a spirit cell phone, in case something happens so I have a new one and so on.
16:14:27 So, it's kind of interesting.
16:14:31 It sounds like Christmas vacation.
16:14:36 Yeah, well maybe it will be just like five and that would be what I was like thinking, and it will be much more like relieving and, hopefully, hopefully you will have a great, great vacation.
16:14:48 Don't stress too much. I mean, it's good to be prepared. I think you were thinking well about what purpose of possibilities but I don't stress too much over.
16:15:01 Yeah, I must excuse myself I'm going to be probably missing next time because I think I will still be on a plane.
16:15:11 And I will for sure and I'll be able to connect to the meeting, and reasonably evaluate quotes.
16:15:20 Being on the plane with a crying baby. So that's good. By next, next, next, end of next week.
16:15:27 But I then then I'm going to be joining well done dinner I mean that's going to be happening obviously that's just but I think it's important that you know will even show up like remember once we showed up and we had this great discussion about all kinds
16:15:39 of things so it's really nice to see you and just, but it's obviously a good habit.
16:15:47 Anyway, I need to run because I have another meeting.
16:15:51 I think I have in my notes everything that that transcript.