Being paid for doing what you like-still impossible

Knowledge Collection Making a Living
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me too!

Hi James, Lcyanna (and also Alberto, who speaks again about uncertainity, as he did commenting a similar post posted by me :smiley: )

I perfectly understand your feeling, and James one. First of all I can share with you what happens when you finish your PhD bursary (I spent three years doing research and it has been great, but…I got my PhD on February so I am currently unemployed!): if you have saved enough money to survive some months you can continue doing what you like to do until you find something close to what you like BUT you need to be extremely FLEXIBLE!!!

On the other hand I am not sure that it’s impossibile to make what you like being your job…I know people who do it, even if it difficult and, for sure you need LUCK! (and good NETWORK!)

sometimes even the kind of job you don’t like at all may convert themself to something good!!!

Concerning alternative experiences: I am extremely interested in sharing knowledge, ideas and experience with you!!!

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You need LUCK…

That’s the part I most hate about job/career/etc. After years of hard work one still needs LUCK? Isn’t it unfair ?

And the part with being FLEXIBLE sounds like “resigned” and “opened to compromise”. Again, very unfair.

Why do we, as young people, accept it all ?! Why don’t we actually express our anger and feeling we are being mistreated ?

I can’t start a revolution, but I would like to , if I had the means.

ps: sometimes even the kind of job you don’t like at all may convert themself to something good- how ? if you meet interesting people at work ?

23

I can sort of testify to LUCK

In my experience it’s a sort of luck, more like OPPORTUNITY, meaning that if you’re always open to new experiences and are moving a small step in their way, it may be that the people and circumstances of those opportunities move double the step towards you. But this is indeed related to that flexibility that can be annoying due to uncertainty and making compromises, like you say lucyanna.

I second Betta’s words on networks, and meeting interesting people. It’s all about the people that can help you, it’s a discussion that here at Edgeryders has been recurring, whether we’re talking family support, mentoring, friends, networking.

On a final note, I reasonate with all this discussion, I’m in the same situation - I have to choose between starting a boring, less rewarding PhD programme in Cluj, Romania - or keep on working temporary on several projects, much more exciting but lacking in certainty.

The third option, running away - no. Unless you discover being a (rural) working nomad really fits you. I have a friend studying international development for her masters, which in Romania is impossible to work on in a way that’s satisfying - even working for UNDP here is really not interesting I hear … so she’s waiting for the opportunity to fly to Africa and do the most basic aid stuff , excluding a normal life and routine, and paid work, and probably family… just helping remote communities.But that’s a mixture of running and something that may nurture passion, so it’s not the worst case scenario .

keep your hear up, Lucyanna, I really wish you and all of us here to be able to find our ways eventually. Although there’s not really an end to this Ryde, as the most mature EdgeRyders say, like Alberto.

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a suggestion

first of all I really like the sentence “there is not really an end to this Ryde” :slight_smile:

Then leaving a bit of the discussion…may I suggest you something NoemI? NEVER do a PhD if you consider it boring and rewardless!!! PhD programmes (if you really do it, and you look like someone who does it) it’s enough demanding, stressful, complicate and sometimes frustrating that IF YOU DON’T LOVE what you do you will not overcome…well of course you survive but it makes you incredibly SAD.

I have just finished mine and it’s because of how I liked what I was doing (and beacause of the people I met) that I don’t regret about having spent three years like that!

cheers

Betta

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hey Betta, I’ll keep you in the loop about the PHD. It’s not doing it in general that;s scary, it’s doing it in my hometown, where I can already anticipate the atmosphere and dissapointment because I’m already working on research projects with the university department. And it’s not fun at all, it’s boring and you sit down in meetings where nothing ever interesting comes up, and you have to have A LOT of initiative to make something happen. Everyone is sort-of friendly, young professors, and willing!, that’s the part I don’t understand, but nothing happens. Everybody is busy wit own projects, and real collaboration and high performance doesn’t happen, although seemingly everyone wants to and is open.

This is tricky because this means there’s room for innovation, but if you’re the kind of person needing to be hand-holded, it ain’t gonna happen. And unfortunately I am. I want to study alongside people, not on my own because I don’t think I can progress this way.

Oh, and then there’s Bridget’s thoughts on this posted as comment here in this discussion , which sums up so well the value of work in this closed field:

I don’t even know what you mean by tenures, ISI, web of science etc. I don’t mean to be cynical at all about academia, because I really value the research and teaching they do. It’s just that these terms of accreditation don’t really mean much outside the system.

I think that there is benefit in blogging (even just on a micro scale) alongside working out your thoughts within academic communities of enquiry. There is so much to gain from extending your queries to a wider circle. It boosts your confidence and you are challenged by people with very different perspectives. I encourage children to do it as a method of studying, rather than see it as something you do once you have studied.

Looking forward to talk some more!

Luciana, I can put you in contact with my friend but really she is kind of lost too, she’s graduating from her MA programme and doing internships on the side… coming fall, I really don’t know what she will do.  I think she’s in Bucharest now too.

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Dear Noemi,

Thank you-multumesc ! for your feed-back !

I have to choose between starting a boring, less rewarding PhD programme in Cluj, Romania - or keep on working temporary on several projects, much more exciting but lacking in certainty.

Well, I’d also say don’t do the boring PHD, maybe find another less boring academic programme or of course, keep working on your projects.

The third option, running away - no. Unless you discover being a (rural) working nomad really fits you.But that’s a mixture of running and something that may nurture passion, so it’s not the worst case scenario .

You put it very well. Helping remote communities and traveling is something I would enjoy, but not the rural and “basic aid stuff”. For some, this is not the worst case scenario, but a dream come true. But I’m not sure if it would work for me because I don’t know how well I would adapt to those living conditions. Otherwise giving up routine is ok  for me.

Maybe if I could talk to your friend (if she agrees) , this could help me figure it out a bit.

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Yes “you need LUCK” is unfair: but I didn’t mean what you think.

I meant you need a certain kind of context (as I described) which allows you to survive while changing the world to rebuild it as you like it: this is the typical problem…while we express our anger and feelings (or even while you practically try to change) you need foof, education, housing and so on: if you live in a Country which provides some sort of BASIC INCOME (either it is free education, support for housing, unemployment subside, free public transportation, free access to libraries…or actual money/month) you are LUCKY! if you live in Country which doesn’t provide those “services”  you have two options: either you have a family which helps/supports you (I don’t mean “you are rich” I just mean “support”) …and in this case you are LUCKY either you have not this chance, so you have no choice: you need what society defines a “proper job” …which corresponds to the definition of “doing something that someone else think must be done” (more or less).

By the way if your family supports you (somehow) some of your Ministers might make fun about you saying “young Italians are bamboccioni”…

Second point: I didn’t mean “resigned” at all with FLEXIBLE. I meant that you need  to take life easy, you should not think about having a “family” in the traditional way (i.e. you and your partener might need to live in two different countries), you might even switch from a field to another in your “unconventional” jobs…and you must start finding a smart answer to this very nice question:" what do you do? where do you live?".

Finally, concerning, the p.s. : I think that sometimes people do a job they don’t like but if they do it in a good way they might make this job better or more fairly than it usually happens (i.e. people working in a bank-I will never do it, for instance -might help people looking for a loan in a correct way) or you might change something in the job context, or, of course you might meet interesting people…

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Ok, now I understand …

…what you meant by FLEXIBLE ! In this case, I do consider myself flexible. But not LUCKY, or not yet.

By the way if your family supports you (somehow) some of your Ministers might make fun about you saying “young Italians are bamboccioni”…

Yet, bearing in mind the whole discussion, is it wrong for a young person to accept family’s support ? Can we consider this a lack of maturity or should we consider it a smart strategy to gain some time to find or build your own path ?( i don’t speak Italian, yet I guess “bamboccioni” means childish ?)

I think that sometimes people do a job they don’t like but if they do it in a good way they might make this job better or more fairly than it usually happens

I admit it’s true, still there are persons who would just not accept this kind of compromise. I am one of them, I admit.

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me neither :slight_smile:

Me neither i admit…but I know, for some friends experience, that is possible. And I think it’s good to keep it in mind…just in case!

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Choose the happy road

No, no, no, please don’t pick Option number 1! This is what everyone will tell you, even will almost dictate you to do. But you will get exhausted, and more importantly, yes, absolutely yes, you will become very unhappy, and this will shorten your life down the road.

The happy road (doing the things that we most like) is always what your heart tells you to do.

You know what it is. You hear the voice.

My suggestions would be, if it is possible for you, keep doing the volunteer ‘work’, and inform your network of your financial situation. Let them know what you are good at, and what kind of ideal job you would like. Inform the organisations where you volunteer that this is where your heart is, and ask them if there is a way to financially support your engagement. Offer to assist them with fundraising strategies that would raise enough money to pay you.

Never stop believing in yourself. Keep your dream very close to your heart, and if this is what you love to do, you will attract the right circomstances that will help you materialize your goals. But in order to do this, you really must believe in what you want to become. It has to come from the deep deep down inside, you see, for everyone around you to feel your passion, and be absolutely convinced that you are the one they need to do the job.

You probably won’t make millions, but you will lead a satisfying life that will bring you closer to what you are. You will have the opportunity to develop yourself to your maximum capacities, to find your life purpose and discover your unique talents. You will tend to the highest vision of your being.

Please please please please please, do yourself a favor: erase this thought from your mind, ‘I actually hate money’. This is not good! You conditioned your mind to have an aversion to money and because of this false belief you have, you may never be able to earn a decent living. Money is definitely not as important as many other things, but we need some to live. So we have to be careful with the stories that we play in our heads.

I suggest you to say instead, ‘I am now at the right place, with the right people, under the right circumstances, and all aspects of my life harmonize and align with my needs, including my financial life’.

What you say to yourself, your mind believes it. Even the silly negative stuff. It believes everything you say. Replace your thoughts by beautiful stories, and your life will be transformed. Remember, you deserve the best in life, because you are wonderful and unique.

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Thank you for your kind, beautiful and caring words. I am amazed . Thank you!!! I feel really appreciated and supported, which is great !

I never planed to choose Option 1, actually. But I had to add it on the list as this is the most common(default) option for young people.

I do want to follow my heart, even if I am aware this does not necessary mean “a happy end”. We live in an unfair society, after all. And, people are still dying of hunger and poverty on this planet. So what can I hope living in this kind of world ?!

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What about uncertainty?

One dimension that you do not quote is uncertainty. I think that is actually quite important.

A lot of the more interesting and ambitious ways you could go entail huge uncertainty. Notice I am not speaking of risk here: the notion of risk is associated with more or less known probability distributions (for example, you don’t know if your lottery ticket is the winning one, but you do know that the probability that it is is very low), that of uncertainty with the sheer absence of information: you simply don’t know what could happen.

Several people - several Edgeryders, even - have gone for option number 2. Some have been successful. But every single one that did had to live with uncertainty, and come to terms with it, just look at Neal.

Not that I think option 1 is safe. It is not. If the economic climate gets bad enough, a lot of jobs that should have been for life might disappear. But option 1 is perceived as safe and stable, and this is very important for some people.

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Why live with uncertainty…

…when the most beautiful years of my life (childhood and youth) were invested in learning to control my environment through hard work and trying hard to earn as many  certificates and grades as possible ?!

It is absolutely not fair for society to ask young people who have struggled for their future to live with uncertainty.

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No one said it would be fun!

From WikipediaThe bargain used to be: go to college, work hard, and you will get a job. You will be able to buy your own home and start a family of your own. Nothing in this bargain said you would have fun or feel meaningful. Having a job was supposed to be meaningful in itself, even if you are making stupid, useless or harmful things. This was well known, and satirized by comedians all over the world (here is an example from Dilbert). That would be your option 1.

So, I am not saying that anything is fair. What I am saying is this: even before the recent crisis, with a quickly retreating welfare state and rampant unemployment, the only way to have fun and feel meaningful was, to some people, to take significant risks. Even then, the price of stability was to keep your head down.

35

I am also wondering every day about these questions… the meaning of life for me is to feel happy and fulfilled which can be achieved also if your daily activities go towards this way, meaning that your “job” should be something that motivates you. BUT how easy is to find a job that pays you and can provides you a comfortable life  and at the same time be your passion?

Not at all I would say… the only solution I would give is to try different things and different kind of works, as you may find happiness somewhere else than your initial thoughts, keep doing volunteerism in any occassion and try to support any initiative for different economy and exchange systems (check: time exchange system, skill to impact system etc).

I would suggest you to watch this very nice idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cNfX3tJonw&feature=youtu.be

and to read Nadia’s story about “having a job? No thanks” as she explains the reason why she doesn’t feel like looking for a “normal” job!

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interesting video

thank you for the video! it’s great…but it would be nice to know how they managed it! do you know where it is?

betta

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thanks

I really like Cohousing ( I have a very closed friend involved in it!) I will read Simone’s report for sure. Thanks again!

Betta

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Two amazing links, thank you

The video is really inspiring, and so is Nadia’s post. Thanks.

Your “job” should be something that motivates you.

Totally agree.

BUT how easy is to find a job that pays you and can provides you a comfortable life  and at the same time be your passion?

Almost impossible.

* try different things and different kind of works, as you may find happiness somewhere else than your initial thoughts

*keep doing volunteerism in any occassion

* support any initiative for different economy and exchange systems (check: time exchange system, skill to impact system etc).

Three great pieces of advice I plan to follow ! Thanks!

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The fourth way

lucyanna - thanks for that honest post! Also I much understand your “I actually hate money” attitude - I know it’s kinda “poinsonous” for my business, being an entrepeneur these days, but I still cultivate that attitude in my mind and think about alternative economy systems and how to start them.

Regarding your three options: maybe there’s another one. You probably know, as your profile says you’re gonna start your own non-profit organization. But just for completeness, I want to add it here:

  1. Do your own thing. Stop looking for a paid job to be offered from somebody else, rather define your own job. The Internet opened up so many ways of funding what you’re passionate about. For example, crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter and Indiegogo. It still takes time to build a community around your ideas, but it’s certainly possible to fund useful contributions to human society even if there’s no job for that.

IMHO, the most-inspiring example of such a self-defined job is Marcin from Open Source Ecology. He has a PhD as a physicist, but, like you, could not see meaning in the paid jobs he could get. (He talks about that a bit in the Austria tour video; there’s a better one for this point that I did not find again.) So he went on and founded the OSE project because it means a useful contribution to humanity for him. While for others, it will appear plain crazy and impractically utopian. But now, the project flourishes. (For those unfamiliar with the OSE, the best start is their 2 min overview video to start.)

You won’t get rich with this approach no 4., but that’s not the point. For those seeking meaningful work, money is naturally second. Also, Alberto’s point of insecurity applies: you never know if and for how long it will work out. That’s a matter of taste - but, the entrepeneurial mindset can also be learned to some degree. (Still, I’d favor some very basic fallback for everybody, in case that such a project with good intentions just fails. To spell it out, I’d welcome the unconditional livable income as the backup for these self-defined jobs.)

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Dear Matthias,

Thank you for very, very useful reply.

I am indeed aware of option 4. It’s the solution, and not one of the options, and yet…

My only question is whether starting an NGO is one and the same thing with becoming an entrepeneur ? It’s not a business. So I might manage to create it, but not be able to make a living from it.

The OSE projects sounds great. I’d love to build my own community with those tools…(!)

You won’t get rich with this approach no 4., but that’s not the point. For those seeking meaningful work, money is naturally second.

True.

Still, I’d favor some very basic fallback for everybody, in case that such a project with good intentions just fails. To spell it out, I’d welcome the unconditional livable income as the backup for these self-defined jobs

What do you mean by the "unconditional livable income " ? Could you define it better ?

Thanks!