Bike tour 'Cohousing Noord, Schaarbeek en Laken' 8/10/22

Dear @reeflings,
The 8/10/22 there will be a bike tour between Brussel Noord, Schaarbeek and Laken to visit some co-shousing projects (not defined which ones) organized by Wonen in Brussel.
See hereby

Details

  • Language: Generally they ask who speaks what and do it in English if needed.
  • Cost: 5 euro per person
  • Bike: included if needed

Booking seems individual as far I see, but If interested drop a message so we know how many reeflings we are.
Tickets left: 16 (I have one already)

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Good idea… but I will be traveling, so I have to pass.

I’m in!

Sounds great, but I’m doing an NVC workshop the weekend of the 8th and 9th :slight_smile:

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Great idea but I will be abroad. Enjoy ! :slight_smile:

@Sarah and @Sophie_Beese would you be willing to report back on what you learned, if only very concisely?

I actually didn’t catch much as it was in Flemish mostly… but I have a few notes so will coordinate with @Sophie_Beese if you’re also happy to write up something?

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Here is what I remember (and understood in Dutch):

Nice info: Anne distributed the Reef flyers about the info session to everyone

Main message: be realistic, not a lot of land left in Brussels, think more in terms of Courouble than Tivoli. At Tivoli, they were incredibly lucky to get a piece of empty ground, at Courouble they bought several pieces of land, there is a neighbour sort of in the middle with whom they have fallen out.

Both are (much) smaller than what the Reef aspires to be: Tivoli has 9 households and Courouble 17.

We also went past another cohousing (Casa Nova). They were a group on the edge of falling apart because they couldn’t find a site and then got in touch with an investor (or some property developer) who agreed to cooperate with them on the property they are in now. Apparently, you can tell from the architecture (common spaces?) that it is designed from an investors point of view but at least they now have a building. Looks like it’s all about compromise.

Courouble has two inclusive units (one co-owned by all the members of the group, one owned by a woman who initially wanted to move in and then couldn’t), they are working with an AIS and have no control over who is moving in.

Tivoli worked with Citydev. They have two common spaces – one on the roof only for the group and one on the ground floor that (external) people can also use for workshops. They also trade plants with the neighbours which has really been helping them integrate into the neighbourhood. They have few common expenses (cleaning lady for common spaces and lift), the rest they do themselves (engineers and architects in the group).

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Here are my notes and if Edgeryder lets me, some pics and plans to help visualize it :slight_smile:

L’ambassade
(Rue Courouble Schaerbeek)

Bought 2017, started work from 2019… some people moving in now but still mostly unfinished.

Inclusive appartements : for people from Convivial, foreign students… (although Sophie is talking about an AIS, so Im not sure…)

appartements of about 80m2
Ais 26m2 (inclusive units?)
2000 mètres carrés de logements privatifs et 1000 de parties communes tout compris.
Le grand jardin fait environ 500 m2 et le petit 220.
Surface au sol: batiment en façade : 300m2. Bâtiment arrière environ 200 m2.
15 ménages propriétaires (dont 10 ménages primo acquéreurs) comptabilisant 26 adultes
+2 AIS

(upload://h1ZmbCKNTkYROibbBcz1jmxQZTK.jpeg)


Uploading: IMG_20221008_162330.jpg…

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Tivoli

19 adults 18 children
9 appartements
650m2 garden + building 800m2 / 990 m2 (??)
Avergage total price: 2000 euros/m2 (solar screens, wooden floors)
In since 1.5y
Big appt; often 4 bedrooms (2-4 children)

The land belongs to City Dev

Financial objectif : make it accessible

  • One way to achieve that was not to buy the land (which in bxl represents 40÷ of the total price); instead the land belongs to city dev
    Percentage of people who can afford to buy based on the average revenues in Bruxelles (??not too sure what the exact stat was :-/): 25% (market price) → 40 (city dev) → 50 in Tivoli (only 2 people from the initial group couldn’t go through with the project)
    Appartement of 350 000 in Tivoli–> same appartement on the market = 500 000 euros
  • Subsidies possible because ecological purposes (insulation, water tank, plant exchange with neighbours- hotspot for biodiversity - local plants); important for city dev

Building aspects:

  • Building in concrete (today could do better)
  • There was a limit of height for the building! This comes from city regulations and additional regulations specific to the neighborhood there.
    It was still possible to add a common room at the top because you can “take out” other spaces from the main building and reassign to the extra level → Top floor half terrasse, half common room
  • So 2 common spaces:
    1/ one at the bottom; available for neighborhood (agreed with city dev) → bike repair, concerts, classes
    2/ one at the top floor: top floor is half terrasse, half glass room with view over the city…
    Nice that way because in the summer they mostly use the downstairs area, and the top one in the winter. Not too much problem with energy consumption with the glass-room at the top because they dont overheat the room and actually it warms from the sun
  • Another very nice feature is the “coursives”: outer balconies that give acces to the apartments on each level; it’s a bit of an inner street where people cross paths!

Structure and legal stuff

  • Why a fondation ? to be able to rent (bottom space?) and also for servitude/being able to sign before having building (or something like that…)
  • Important to have a fiscal expert
  • Notary specialised with cohousing: Maître de viser (but doesn’t work anymore), maître herneux (Namur)







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Thanks for all the info and pictures @Sarah :slight_smile:

:slight_smile:
Does anybody feel like visiting Tivoli? They have an interesting legal structure (fondation+clt) and a very nice building. I think @alberto you had a few questions on that?
Corouble is not an option any more cause they are doing huge work at the moment and are just a muddy construction site…

Happy to hear that I just need to calm down with the visits!

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I’m super keen to visit Tivoli, because I heard that their common room is on the rooftop!

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I would also be interested to visit Tivoli.

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