Contract with the architects

The Reef
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i started reading the contract, but too many questions (as it’s nothing i have ever done before).
I wonder if we shouldn’t start with meeting them, and let them first explain…

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hey @els , hi @reef-finance
Also really busy these days (till 5th July). I guess it’s a relatively standard contract, so not sure meeting is necessary as the first step. I guess we need to understand the contract first and then meet them for questions.

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Hello,
I have read the contract and it is rather standard.
I haven’t seen and protection for us if there is a sudden spike in prices (and since their fee is 10% of the cost of the project, their fee might go up as well).

I was also surprised to see that we have not foreseen a minimum level of finishings for the shared common spaces - could we have a provision to maybe lock the 10% fee as price also on this part if we wish to have them follow the works of the finishings (however rudimentary we would decide to have them)

@els : I see their fee in the contract is 10%. In the FS of Jette the percentage of 15,10%. So maybe the the 5,1% includes all the accessory things : essai sol, geomètre, and all other obligation from art. 8 (to confirm with the architect maybe.

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I have some question on the paiements, for the group and for the architect. 25% + VAT * estimates = 165K to be paid to the architect on various installments between the signing of the contract and the filling of the request for permit (that we hope to do in T1 of 2025, right) ?
I would discuss internally if this amount is feasible for the group (as some of us might have depleted their savings for the buying of the plot already). If not, try to negotiate other installements % and/or invoicing frequency.

Secondly, can we reach out to Brutopia and ask whether there was something they wished they had foreseen in their contract.

I also wonder if they have a NL version of the contract for NL speakers in our group who might not be familiar with the FR jargon of the contract (and as a side note in general, it might be good to request bilingual documents from suppliers). Most of the might have them and the group would gain from having more native speakers reading the contracts.

Will take some days to think this over and come back with other remarks. Maybe we can also post a tag to all reeflings to see (given the financial commitment it might be important) ?

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we didn’t go in detail of what exactly was in this figure when they presented the FS of jet-14, where we were mainly focussed on the price/m2.
Maybe some ‘older’ members have that info, as there was a previous meeting on the FS file in general?

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@reef-building @reef-finance

Should we try to meet with the architects before their holiday (starting 15/07 to 15/08 more or less), to talk about the contract?
A poll to see if some representatives of team finance/team building could be present… I would suggest it to be online…

  • Monday 8 July 17:00 - 18:00
  • Monday 8 July 17:30 - 18:30
  • Tuesday 9 July 17:00 - 18:00
  • Tuesday 9 July 17:30 - 18:30
  • Wednesday 10 July 17:00 - 18:00
  • Wednesday 10 July 17:30 - 18:30
  • Thursday 11 July 17:00 - 18:00
  • Thursday 11 July 17:30 - 18:30
  • Friday 12 July 17:00 - 18:00
  • Friday 12 July 17:30-18:30
0 voters
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i’ve finished reading the contract and linked to the question of ‘budget Team building’ for Q3-Q4 this year, i find some answers in the contract, but not sure if i completely understood.
And maybe also linked to the question Sarah raised: shouldn’t we have the sosim rather soonish (i think it was also raised in the coordination meeting, where i wasn’t present).
Do you also understand the following:

  • architects fees are 10% of all works, even works done by ourselves, so in the contract they mention: 4.095.000 (casco) and 1309000 (finishing) = 5404000 so their honoraires would be 10% of this: 540,400 (without tva)
  • for this year this would mean 20% of that budget that needs to be paid = 108.080 (without tva)
  • for next year up untill the construction, another 40 % = 216.160 (without tva)

=> so can this be handled by the asbl?
=> i guess we don’t have 108,080 on our account so i guess we’ll need full members to pay this part as well, soonish (or at least part of it)? @reef-finance ?

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I would prefer a flat fee + bonus if the building stays on budget. “Cost plus markup” lays out the incentives all wrong.

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At the coordination meeting, we were thinking of doing that during our “réunion de travail” with them, and tell the date to team finance to see if who could join. But I guess it might be a good idea to have a separate meeting as there might be a lot to discuss,…

For me it would have to be online apart from Monday 8th. I could also do wednesday 10/11 online at 5.30pm but could only join mid meeting, same for friday 12/07
Also 11/07 there will be the visite of Tivoli

Haven’t look in details in the contract, will try and get to it soon

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@reef-building , @reef-finance

Francois confirmed to be free to have a meeting on 08/07 , from 17:00 onwards.
There will be two topics:

  • the contract with the architects (reef-building + reef-finance)
  • réunion de travail with team building (getting more clarity on the process, the concern related to the costs of the apartment we don’t know,…) (reef-building only)

i’ll put in in the next cloud agenda with an opentalk link, one of these days…

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I’d like to join but not sure I’ll be able to log off work that early, will decide on the day.
Thanks for organising @els :slight_smile:

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hi @ugne, @LuciaM ,

i’ve just read that alberto is on a break till 09/07 so he won’t be able to make the meeting after all (i guess), can any one of you join?

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From the poll it looks like @RichardB seemed to be available no? Or did you have other info from him?

Also wondering if it wouldn’t be good to do this one live? It might be a bit more delicate than others, I wonder if being online is not going to make interactions harder…
Personaly, I’m available to do it IRL, but that might not be the case for everybody…?

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No, indeed, i still count on Richard, but personally would feel better that another representative of team finance would be present. I do understand french but reading/understanding a contract in french is sth different. So very happy to have you there as a native speaker :slight_smile:
I would also prefer life and i could make it as wel. I remember last time Francois didn’t have such a good connection so it might be the same again, and Opentalk is not ideal. (Lee had issues at the first Q&A, Chris also had issues at the second Q&A).
@RichardB : could you make it life on monday with the architects?

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Good morning,

I am available for both live and online meeting. I am, of course, happy to defer to Ugne and/or Richard since they are full members if that is better for the group.

Should I attend, I would appreciate a brief preparation meeting (30 minutes) to align on our key points regarding the contract. While I have suggested some questions, my limited history with the architects leaves me uncertain about the appropriate questions and demands. I want to ensure I avoid any missteps.

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hi, i can understand :slight_smile:
The way I see it (but that’s just my vision): the goal of this meeting is to get clarity on what the contract says. For me all questions are allowed. I wouldn’t put down any demands just yet…
After that we should present this at one of the next plenarys and see if - as a group- we would like to make any changes/demands to the contract. I thought of maybe involving the negociator, but these are nice guys. Caro and Lie told me they don’t make big money on our project, so personally i wouldn’t start a hard negotiaton here, but again that’s my opinion.
@Sarah @RichardB : how do you see it?

but maybe we could meet anyway, i am free tomorrow eve and friday eve…

I’ve uploaded my questions for the architects, feel free to add yours…
https://c301.nl.tabdigital.eu/f/162606

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I think your roadmap makes sense!
I will try to meet an architect friend of mine over the weekend to learn about some of the important aspects in such a contract but not sure it will happen. :crossed_fingers:

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i asked richard, he will be 15 minutes later, so if we start with the TB questions, that shouldn’t be a problem. So let’s do it live indeed, meeting at 17:00 for Team building members and around 17:30 for Team finance to join as well…

@ugne and/or @LuciaM : feel free to join.

I am free tomorrow evening for a brief preparation meeting if that’s needed, let’s say 19:00?

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Hi all!
Thanks for setting this up…

I’m not available tonight for a preping meeting. Could do it this weekend if absolutely necessary, but everything is so full atm… Maybe we can get ready through the document Els has prepared, listing all our questions and commenting when we think one needs amendment or is not relevant?

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@RichardB @Sarah @LuciaM

  • checked with Lucia yesterday, no need any more for a meeting before monday
  • so for Monday: meeting live at the architects at 17:00. We can start with the Team Building questions so team finance can arrive half an hour later. Contacted alberto, and he’s ok doing it live…
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hi @Richard @Sarah @LuciaM ,

We (sarah and maybe still richard) were talking maybe to bring this up in the next plenary…
The architects indicated to want to have the contract signed preferably by the end of august, and me and maybe also sarah will be on holiday for the plenary in august (foreseen august 14th), we should maybe aim to get this presented on the plenary of July 23rd?
@Lee @ugne : is there still time left on the plenary of July 23rd to present the topic ‘contract with the architects?’

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