Financial doubts/questions, as we might soon buying a site

Hi @reef-full , it was my impression to start a thread to express the financial questions/doubts we still have, related to buying a site (last full members meeting).
@Lee : if I misunderstood or you think better to handle this differently, go ahead :slight_smile:

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  1. We will be needing to foresee some parkings, with the aim to sell them at a later point => how are we going to prefinance that. Should we (some of us) foresee taking a bigger loan? Are there any ideas about this allready?
  2. I am doubting between a smaller apartment at average or higher price and a big apartment at average/lower price.
  • I assume that if we would buy a site, the architects will make a more detailed plan with a clear division in units, the related m2 per unit and we will see where they will be situated on the plans.
  • to buy the site we will need to start up our Sosi, and I guess define the shares per sosi-member. This shares will be calculated based on what we communicated in ‘Le Programme’?
  • I saw that Lee put in a question for the architects ’ Would you be willing to indicate the value of every units in relation to the “accordéon” or price fork?’ => if we have this, we will also know the price of each unit on their plans
  • I guess the next step is the ‘chosing of apartments’ where the ‘oldest’ (= the longest in The Reef) will have a first pick, …
    => it’s at this step - for me- that i will be able to make my decision ‘smaller and more expensive apartments’ vs ‘bigger and cheaper’ apartment. But that decision might influence my ‘share’ in the Sosi’, no?

Is that how it will work? And does this mean we easily can update the shares of a SoSi member after the creation? Or should this be fixed (and then maybe go for a larger share from the beginning)?

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Two questions I have (for the notary).

Question 1. Post-deed enlargement of the group

If we buy JET-14, it looks like we will have to do the deed with an incomplete group (and pay notary fees and enregistrement).

Next, we will complete the group. New members will need to be added to the maatschap. Does this require another deed and another enregistrement? Normally yes, because the maatschap has no legal personality. So this means that a group of people is selling the land to a different group of people, though many of the members of the two groups are the same.

Can we get a step-by-step guide to do this?

Question 2. When do we need the maatschap?

Given question 1, is it necessary that we incorporate before the compromis? Could we not sign the compromis as a group of individuals, and then create the maatschap only later, before the deed?

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  • Would it be possible to work with a 5% safety margin instead of 10%? If yes, does this imply certain consequences for the others?
  • Until when can we change our individuel ‘program’ (similar to Els’ questions above)? The surface of my apartment depends on the final price per m².
  • Do the confesseurs have an idea about the possible evolution of the interest rate for loans in the coming year?
  • What if AND-28 would turn out cheaper than JET-14? Do we work with ‘first preferences’ in order to decide to move forward? Or how do we see this?
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A third question: I understood somewhere that it might be in our advantage to have as much as possible full members/sosi members when creating the maatschap => Is it an idea to ask some people - not planning to join the cohousing in the end- to become a sosi member and transfer their ‘share’ to the ones that will join later. Just to maybe have more advantages at the start-up of the sosi. (if i understood well, the risk linked to being a sosi member are very limited, unless we start to make debts, which we are not planning to do). (i know, real belgian girl talking here :-))

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@ugne I addes some questions for Triodos to this file https://c301.nl.tabdigital.eu/f/122872

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Another question:
The Immotheker said that he thinks that we all have to take a loan with the same bank, but he was not 100% sure. Can somebody confirm?

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I don’t think so. Maatschappen have no legal personality, they are just a front for the people in it. So, when we sign a compromis (which means we acquire a legal right), all members at that point acquire a share of that right.

I think we are good to sign as we are, and then it would be optimal to complete the group before the deed. Until that point it is not too hard to add members. After that point I am afraid we’ll have to basically do a second deed. That’s my question 1 above.

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Hello @els, we had a first proposal last year on unit pricing and decided that the resale value will be an important factor when approaching prices of individual units. To summarise, it will be up to the Reef to consent on a “fair price” of every unit when we have a full sketch from the architects and as you rightly mention, we will surely consult their opinion. There are also other factors than the size of an appartment that determine the resale value (see proposal).Lastly, I don’t think older Reeflings will have priority over newer Reeflings when it comes to the ditribution of units. Pricing and choice will be less favourable, however, for Reeflings who join after the deed has been signed.

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This is not clear yet, but based on today’s discussion, my intuition is that we will solve this with a bullet loan to pre-finance this. Reasons would be sharing the risk and the cost of the capital. Overall I would deprioritise this now, as this is a problem that all city cohousings have faced.

I expect we will be asked to provide more details on our wishes for our apartments very soon, including where you would like to be. There are all sorts of solutions to this, including just communicating your budget to the architects. The way I understand it, to the extent possible they will draw up the plans in a way that there is a “dream unit” for each household, or at least a second best. How this works in detail, and more importantly, what the architects will need from us, is something we should clear out ASAP.

For now, the capital we need in the société simple will only relate to the cost of the site, so to keep things simple I would propose to stick to the units’ surfaces as the distribution key. In the next round, when we raise capital for the building, we could then envisage to also mirror the differences in the price fork.

The safety margin is a non-negotiotiable to me, just for the sake of … safety. That said, I hope to find time this weekend to come up with a proposal (to be decided on by consensus) on making an exception for a few household to only go for 5% instead of 10%.

We need to clarify with the architects how this will work in detail. I believe it won’t always be possible to choose the surface of your unit to m² precise, so I think it will be easier if you just communicate your budget and your wishes, and then they will see whether they can find you something.

Best to ask them yourself. The way I understand things, the worst is now behind us (but that’s a dangerous thing to say these days :cry:)

For myself I decided to not think about this scenario until I have more information. I don’t want to dismiss your question of course, it’s just that I don’t have a ready answer, and so I prefer to wait it out a little.

I am almost 100% sure that everybody will be free to chose their own bank.

This is a misunderstanding I’m afraid, as this has been our policy since the beginning: once there is the final plan, people will be able to choose their unit in the order of becoming a Full Member. It’s specified in the “membership” section in the Governance Document, and the actual list is saved in Team Recruitment & Onboarding’s admin folder (file name: “order of priority” (or something)). The reasoning is that several cohousings went through infernal levels of misery (dominant households claiming the best unit), and the system is borrowed from one of our sibling S&F cohousings.

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