I agree on everything.
Github and bitbucket are the easiest solution and are not locking solutions (with the exception of their issue tracking system and inline comments, of course).
EDIT
Non tech people could use graphical markdown editors and graphical git clients.
Framasoft
I’ll throw in Framasoft. I only ever used their hackpad, but it looks nice in general since it seems like a productivity centered suite, where one would hope things work well with each other. I don’t know though.
And I’d expect with some things language/documentation may also be an issue - though probably not a showstopper. Perhaps a feature?
Framasoft’s MyPads to create private pads not ready yet
It’s important that we can share private, password-protected pads (just had this use case after “Spot the future” event in Bucharest last week).
Framasoft has crowdfunded their project MyPads which will do just that. However, it’s not ready yet. I really appreciate Framasoft’s work.
MoPad
Mozillas MoPads can be password protected if you set up a ‘team site’.
Just noticed that they are supposed to be for Mozilla related work only. 
wooops did not notice that before when I’ve used them - was planning to set up another ‘team site’ for a project I’m working on…
Having a quick look at etherpad.orgs list of instances I see that Mozillas pads are out of date but that the German Pirate Party have a instance with ‘teams site’ that is up to date.
Parallel track - user demands wishlist
I think it is a good and pragmatic approach to make a collection (as in brainstorming) of programs that look like they may be useful and do what we need, in the way we want (or come acceptably close to that). I’d want to encourage people to list programs that may also have a shortcoming here or there, as it may help to find a version that is similar but better. Just make sure you are critical and point out the major shortcomings from your perspective.
What I’d want to see above that is:
Can we find out what the requirements e.g. in terms of user interface, etc. are where we operate - and especially where we just so cannot operate anymore because some feature or software suite is not up to requirements?
So in principle a wishlist + reasoning (and don’t be afraid to leave the box here).
Already attempted for the platform. Failed.
We gathered user stories, and then a task which was never completed was to boil them down into user demands.
As is often the case, not enough developers were willing to commit time towards addressing them. So this time I would like to take the approach that we begin with what those of us who drive/are most heavily involved in the futurespotters project need and @TCT can/is willing to set up for us.
Best is to find free software replacements for services you use
I think if you list all services you are currently using (some are listed in @Nadia’s blog post), Ceata.org can help find and install free software that does most of what you need.
Don’t forget Ecobytes!
Great news! It would also be a good idea to check back with @gandhiano and Ecobytes. If memory serves, after 31C3 Edgeryders sponsored a couple of Ecobytes memberships as a small perk to members of our community. Of course the problems are the same, for all people like… well, us, so there’s definitely benefits from tackling the solutions together.
Maybe we should work towards hosting a harmonious hackathon towards building our own infrastructure, with Fundatia Ceata and Ecobytes? Maybe we should involve @lasindias too?
Perhaps also reach out to
Posteo? They are commercial and all, but they seem to be relatively serious about walking the talk. They’d probably also have some good pointers to other options, being in the market for some time. I don’t assume they themselves won’t want to do much ground-breaking, as they seem to be focused on email.
VPS (better PS), instead of shared-hosting
Taking a look at Ecobytes, I believe they offer shared-hosting. Ceata can work with them on adding certain free server software Edgeryders needs (like ownCloud Server) which is maybe needed by other users too, but for us to be able to experiment and be flexible, IMO Edgeryders should have at least a virtual machine, if not a physical, real server. Ceata has its own server from the very beginning.
Thanks! Here’s how I understand it…
Thanks for your insights and kindness, @TCT, very good to meet you. My name is Alberto, a long-time edgeryder.
So: we do have a virtual machine with dedicated cores, but not with Ecobytes – we are hosted by a German company called EuroHosting or something like that. We only met Ecobytes later: @Matthias has decided that a migration was not worth the investment. Perhaps we will take the chance of the next major overhaul of the website to migrate.
As an “advanced Muggle” (don’t develop, can code a little for data manipulation purposes, but not afraid of learning to use tools), I would like to throw in my point of view in this super-interesting discussion, and see what you guys think – that means also @Darren, @mstn and @trythis.
There are two types of extended functionalities: those that are linked to a cultural change (normally the relationship is not one-way: they require cultural change, but at the same time they induce it too), and those that don’t. A markdown editor does not require cultural change, as long as it can be added to WYSIWYG as an extra option; so each person can use the editor she prefers. Getting people to really use wikis, or issue tracking functionalities, or crypto, that’s another story. The power of those tools are in people using them together and at the same time; even within a small community like ours, their value increases superlinearly with the number of users. No point using encrypted mail if none of your friends can receive an encrypted message!
I propose that any tool being rolled out within Edgeryders – if it is connected with cultural change – should come with an explicit effort to (1) explain to the community why they should care about the tool and (2) campaign tirelessly for adoption, over a sustained period of time. By “explicit” here I mean this: that one or more people take personal responsibility for leading the effort.
When @msanti, @danohu and I, at 31C3, fell in love with the Community Crypto idea, the deal was this: they (the geeks) would offer technical support to any edgeryder wanting to embrace it. I would write the instructable, act as alpha tester (if I can do it, anyone can!) and promote community crypto corners at all Edgeryders events. I would be the adoption champion.
That project is stagnating because we could not get Mailpile to work with the edgeryders.eu SMTP server, despite much banging our heads on the wall and pleading with the Mailpile development team (I recently saw that the blog seems to be active again, so maybe there is more hope now). But I stand for the approach: I would hate to waste precious developer time to roll out tools that no one uses… what does everyone think?
Agree
I’d agree with all that Alberto.
Of course some people may love their propriety (often, but not always) shinier alternative tools and still like to use them. Hopefully by making new tools visible on the ER platform, using them for collaborative work and rolling out an education/promotion effort (online and IRL is nice) we may be able to create more of a ‘culture’ around use of FLOSS tools.
I’ve notice unMonastery has similar goals, and would imagine there would support / collaboration from the Ecobytes collective (?)
I think it would be nice if the ER website revamp could be an opportunity for ER to shift servers over and join the development of Ecobytes.
Shifting servers
Emphatically agree, @Darren. We are within spitting distance of actually starting the much-vaunted revamping – even though last word, as always, goes to @Matthias, since he is the one that ends up having to do the work. We can hire someone, of course, but still it would be Matt doing much of the task writing. But yes, if we do that it would be the perfect opportunity to set up a dev server directly with Ecobytes, while activity goes on with the present incarnation of the site and the present server. When we are ready to go, we move to production, redirect and we are in business.
Ceata can try to help with Mailpile
Thank you for the warm welcome, @Alberto. Ceata can try to help you fix your Mailpile instance(s). And @Noemi is interested in joining Ceata for a crypto event.
Yess!!
Gosh this would be lovely, getting ourselves off the google mail and being able to offer community members @edgeryders.eu addresses running on mailpile.
That’s generous!
Wow, @TCT, that would be so cool. In return, I commit to writing a careful step-by-step guide (in English only) to installing Mailpile, creating and sharing keys etc. in the Edgeryders context.
If and when you have time to help, I would ask you to join the Community Crypto project and assign to yourself this task:
https://edgeryders.eu/en/community-crypto/task-4958
It contains a link to the github issue I opened (and the Mailpile guys closed without solving the problem). I recall @almereyda also tried to help – I believe he knows the Mailpile code base not as well as Bjarni, but way better than us.
Back on keyboard
and had to drag the notification out of spam (about 1/3 rd go there) - that’s why I am so late commenting. It is not lack of interest. Will get around to this in a day or two.
On first skim: general agreement.
Puzzle piece I recently found
Is OBS - it is originally intended to stream into the net while playing video games. Now this is not something that we’ll start doing tomorrow. But once we get serious with social network analysis and navigation, I imagine the interface will be so information dense that we won’t be looking at a couple of static lines but be seriously immersed into the network, similar to a rather weird coop-multiplayer game.
Within 1-2 hours of “playing” you’ll cover what now needs 1-2 weeks in terms of getting background info/and advanced sociograms of projects. It’s going to be very mixed media, and it’ll likely have a certain learning curve to it as well - this is why the sort of piggybacking that streaming allows is relatively fundamental. Not to mention that already today this could really boost local/global hybrid meetings, and document a lot of the effort, especially in combination with a hackpad.
For collaborative synchronous writing its got to be etherpad (what framasoft use) although unlike google word docs there is no notation/comment function.
co-ment is probably a nicer option when documents are being worked on over time, or for more complex/contentious documents. Works more like a wiki with versions, rather than live text appearing as you type. It does allow notation/comments which work like discussion threads with email notifications, if someone wants to discuss your note.
I dont know much about it, or if it would be suitable, but your discussions about document sharing, made me think of syncthing, know actively being developed and heard people bigging it up.
Looking at the syncthing website the way they do their documentation using git looks cool - although I dont understand how git works (I’m not a coder).
Someone was also worrying about the direction of bit torrent sync
If there was still the idea of moving onto the ecobytes servers at some stage I guess it would be good to ask some devs/admins from there if they have any ideas or are working on anything? Think I remember @gandhiano @almereyda being involved??
After checking the proposals in the blog post
Go for it:
ownCloud Server from ownCloud.org
Might be okay:
Tahoe-LAFS - security audit needed
MaidSafe - security audit needed
Avoid at all costs:
rollApp.com - SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute); has privacy issues, too
ownCloud.com - SaSS, proprietary components, has privacy issues
Symform.com - privacy issues, proprietary clients, no public API
BitTorrent Sync - proprietary software
References:
SaaSS - Who Does That Server Really Serve? - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation
Proprietary Software - Proprietary Software - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation