I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
In a solarpunk future, we can imagine that economy and trade could happen primarily at a localised scale, instead of being heavily reliant globalised supply chains. However, despite its history of exploitation, global trade was also responsible for the mixing of cultures and exchange of ideas—enabling the (eventual) acceptance of diversity. This is not yet an idea per-se, but perhaps more an angle of consideration: how might we continue to foster diversity in such a future, if the shape of global trade must change?
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I don’t know why I selected “no” : I of course want to take part in the webinar !
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
Create a shared space in a fractured world.
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
I have many ideas at many levels, but mostly abstract/conceptual schemes and theories rather than particular stories.
A central concept is to make money obsolete by dissolving it in information (as complete as possible).
A complementary concept is to use special types of contracts to be compatible with any monetary system.
There is some analogy with the way copyleft licences subvert subvert copyright.
There is much more concerning ways to handle information.
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Hi, Leonardo-
So… what is a Teal Economy? Of course a monetary system only has to do with payments – it seems you are referring to the system of production and domestic trade, which is more fundamental. Yes? No?
The “structural inefficiencies” of market economies, perhaps, refer to what economists call externalities – yes? And perhaps also market power, the other major category of “market failures”, as even the most market-oriented economists call them. How do you improve on that? Adam Smith’s insight about markets being a way for private individuals by themselves without external control to provide all the goods and services that people are willing and able to pay for (or invent it) is as true now as it was in 1776 (mostly true). I think of market-oriented economies as Churchill used to refer to democracy: the worst system, until you look at all the other systems…
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
Start by dreaming
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
1 Like
I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
Hi, it’s Joriam ahahaha
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
I think it’d be interesting to see an economic system based on long term consequences instead of short term transactions. It’d need to take into account achievements and contributions, reputation and some hindsight redrawing. In such a society, they’d probably focus more on big projects, like a focused international effort in space exploration, and/or an effort for sustainable exploration of resources, possibly even with a societal effort to normalize units, currency and law, as to reduce costs of transaction. I can imagine a kind of utopic ambience based on it, but I also can see some 2 or 3 obvious ways to exploit it.
I got some experience in the tech industry, and I’m a projects manager in a software company, but I am also a long time RPG lover and game-master, and I’ve helped with some book manuscripts before. I love narratives and I’ve got some experience in both world building (especially fantasy) and the tech world.
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Hi Phillip,
Looks like I misspelled it. I mean “Real Economy” not Teal …
I am in a situation right now where my wife got an operation, so I’ve been dealing with that (northing serious, but have had to focus on that), but basically the situation is that Market Economy is based on the usual Supply vs Demand (as they all say), and this is the “structural fallacy” because the third side of the triangulation is “Money.” In a Market Economy that uses Money to close economic transactions, what everybody is after, at the end of the day, is to “get to the money” because of the monopoly that exists on who has the right to “make” the currency used in transactions. And hardly anybody knows what money is, how it works, who controls it, etc.
As those who wish to access money create a “Supply” of goods and services, their real intention is to find the “Demand” needed to close the transactions so they can acquire the above mentioned Money. Such a system cannot be efficient.
Real Economy is focused through an information system to find out what the Need is before production. So Production is based on Real Needs rather than an abstract Demand. A real economy is Need based, not Supply based. I can get more into it if you are interested, but right now just wanted to give you a quick reply.
All the best,
Leonardo
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Hi, Leonardo-
Very sorry to hear that. My wife was also in hospital early this year, so I TOTALLY understand (we have a now-nearly-three-year-old daughter).
Yes – when you have time, more would be very nice 
I think I am following you. You are pointing out, which is true, that people are generally less interested in the products they supply than in the income they receive by producing them, selling them and therefore receiving money, so that they can acquire the things they really want, such as food, clothes, house, car, medical care, going to the theater, etc.
In a market economy the “information system” which has historically been remarkably efficient, has been built around the strong desire of people to live as well as they can, and therefore they seek out what people want so as to produce it and acquire money so they can fund the lifestyle to which they would like to become accustomed, etc. This has all been informal and pretty much word-of-mouth.
If you look at Amazon, this is a company that comes as close as I can think of at this time to what I think you are suggesting. They are putting together suppliers and customers, and acquire tons of data on the demand for everything they sell, as well as how much of it is sold. They busily suggest products to customers based on what they have bought or looked for in hopes of selling them more of it. This can be run as a utopia or a dystopia, depending on how you look at it, but it has proven to be a much more effective and efficient way of matching buyer and seller than any system previously invented.
Now, of course the majority of production in the economy is not end products, but labor – capital (in the economic sense of machinery and buildings used for production) is second. So… if you want to be a kind of Mega-Amazon, you start putting the people who are skilled in producing “x” product in a position of making as much of it as the market demands – no more, no less – and of course at the same level of quality (and price) as customers want. This is what we call “vertical integration”… ;-). Utopia or dystopia? You pick. But it is just smart use of big data on a gigantic scale.
Then you integrate raw materials…
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
To be discussed in the event
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Leonardo-
Cogitating further on this topic, it occurs to me that one possible scenario for the same problem that I (and I hope you) am talking about was presented by Isaac Asimov at the end of his series of stories “I, Robot”. (http://ekladata.com/-Byix64G_NtE0xI4A6PA1--o1Hc/Asimov-Isaac-I-Robot.pdf) You can read it – it is the last story: “The Inevitable Conflict”. Same thing I mentioned: is it a utopia or a dystopia? Asimov the optimist thinks utopia. I like to think so too. But many want to chase the bright elusive butterfly of “freedom”. I welcome any responses…
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Hi Phillip,
I will intersperse my answers below:
You are pointing out, which is true, that people are generally less interested in the products they supply than in the income they receive by producing them, selling them and therefore receiving money, so that they can acquire the things they really want, such as food, clothes, house, car, medical care, going to the theater, etc.
Market Economy:
MONEY: This is the factor that induces people to create a Supply of the goods and services you mention. The issue is that whereas everybody is more or less allowed to provide goods and services, the Monetary System is a monopoly that even stands above governments. Only about 2% of the money “produced” or created is actually coined by governments (physical money), the rest by commercial banks (digital) by means of what is known as Fractional Reserve Banking. Besides the actual monetary system’s inner workings, the key issue here is that only a handful are allowed to “produce” money, and as it is nearly the only way to trade goods and services. it becomes the “bottle neck” of any economy. Worse. only about 2% of the monetary transfers deal with productive economy, the majority being FOREX, which means, currencies being traded to earn money from … yes, trading money.
Still, we should be able to differentiate money, as a human discovery (or innovation), from the official monetary system, which makes money a absolute need for everyone wanting to engage in economic exchanges.
If you look at Amazon, this is a company that comes as close as I can think of at this time to what I think you are suggesting.
indeed, and to a degree, you are right. Many of the books are printed “on demand” and where not physically available before the order was made. However, most of the other goods do not fall into this category. There are people and companies that produce those goods (creating a supply) before the demand is there.
However, in a proper “Real Economy” production happens “after” the need has been presented. So production is there to fulfill real needs. In our current Market Economy, there’s a lot of waste and inefficiency in the supply side of production, because a lot of the goods and even services exist in excess of demand. Yes, this drives prices down, but also up when there is scarcity, which is another symptom of an inefficient system.
Now, of course the majority of production in the economy is not end products, but labor – capital (in the economic sense of machinery and buildings used for production) is second. So… if you want to be a kind of Mega-Amazon, you start putting the people who are skilled in producing “x” product in a position of making as much of it as the market demands – no more, no less – and of course at the same level of quality (and price) as customers want. This is what we call “vertical integration”… ;-). Utopia or dystopia? You pick. But it is just smart use of big data on a gigantic scale.
I have given conferences on the subject of Real Economy vs. Market Economy, and have some material in ppt and some writings that I could share with you, if you are interested. An integrated system of economy is dependant on the “limited resources” and the ecological sustainability of its practices. One of the problems of our current Monetary Market Economy is that the factor “monetary system” is based on something called the 'growth imperative" that goes against the “natural growth” of our ecology. In fact, in natural growth, systems tend to evolve towards efficiency and balance, rather than inefficiency and imbalance. So what we would need to do, among other things, is to learn via Biomimicry how it is that natural systems as complex as our planet manage to stay in balance, not only via homeostasis, but by means of something less known but just as important called homeorhesis.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeorhesis#:~:text=Homeorhesis%2C%20derived%20from%20the%20Greek,state%2C%20which%20is%20termed%20homeostasis. )
I believe that “inventing” a world through the lens of SF can be very helpful to envision solutions to current and future problems before they actually arise.
All the best,
Leonardo
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I want to take part in the webinar.
No
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
My ideas are less around economic worldbuilding and more around how audiences might access and interact with this world. My area of work is at-scale personalised interaction and responsive narrative in immersive experiences. My interest in immersion is the promise of audience transport to ‘other’ worlds. Sadly the majority of immersive storyworlds reproduce current economic models, meaning these worlds are often just more of the same. I am intrigued to find out more about this projects and whether/how I might get involved.
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
It’s said that the world’s first legitimate AI was the Dutch East Asia Trading Company; that the bureaucracies of corporations are of a complexity that they count as legitimate intelligences unto themselves. For many of us baseline humans, it’s an affront to basic values to see corporations as persons. But who are we to judge? Our capacities for empathy and perspective taking are mostly limited to our physical forms as mammals. There is even a loathsome branch of philosophy that deigns to explain away the miracle of consciousness as limited to beings possessing grey matter.
But beyond the stultifying logic of Searls Chinese Room lies the future. I want to get behind the idea that any sufficiently advanced economic system is indistinguishable from ecology, and any sufficiently advanced agent in that system is a subject with its own experiences and viewpoints.
I’d want to explore what those perspectives look like. What they hold dear and what they’re afraid of, how they see other agents, how their relations unfold, what familiar and unfamiliar emotions they experience, and what they find aesthetical in the way they see their worlds.
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
Stop unpaid work for women, empower female led small businesses, preserve the ocean ecosystem, create resilient local food system, inclusive and participatory policymaking
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I want to take part in the webinar.
No
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
Abolish the state and enable highly networked localised distributist enclaves.
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I want to take part in the webinar.
Yes
My idea/suggestion for building the world:
I am interested in economic information systems that might supplement or replace price systems for coordination and allocation, as well as open strategic indicative planning. Models in the real world are OGAS and Cybersyn.
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