Will change a couple od minor things, including default values for options to match architects values
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let me know when you finished or feel free to do the post/tag Lucia/Alin
For me the idea is simplicity, so I would take this as far as splitting it into two documents (because not everybody is familiar with tabs). This would mean people calculate the size of their unit using one document, and then insert the number that you find there in the other file to calculate the price.
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Done!
I think it might be a good idea to tag reef-exploring and associates as a whole.
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hi @reef-associate , @reef-exploring , @buddies (@ChrisM @manuelpueyo @els @Dave_behave @Quentin, @mieke @RichardB @Lee ),
In case you or the the exploring/associate member you are buddying would like to have some more info about JET-14: here is what you’re looking for: Login – Nextcloud
This folder contains:
- some pictures coming from the architects
- sketches of how the cohousing will/might look like (fyi: if you hear somebody talking about obelix, asterix, idefix, they refer to the big building on the street-side (=obelix), the middle-building (=asterix) and the back building (=idefix)
- JET-14 EF cout opération & ventes … => last FS received from the architects where they calculated the price/m2
- JET 14 simulation file** => simulation file where you can
– calculate the apartment you want (the number of rooms, the m2 of kitchen,…)=> first tab of the file
– calculate the price for a certain m2, which can be the output of the first tab (or you can freely introduce this) => second tab
=> this takes into account the price/m2 the architects calculated in the last FS (feasability), the safety margin they recommend,… - the fiche of JET-14: JET-14 - chaussee_…: where it started!! For those who never scouted: when we went scouting and we saw an interesting site, we made a fiche. So this is the one made for JET-14
- utf-8 Etudes faisabilités et préfais… : plans going with the last FS
- note explicative the reef 10 avril: presentation given by the architects to the commune, région and bxl environnement
**remark: you might have come accross another simulation file, using somewhat different figures. This file now is completely alligned with the figures of the architects. The difference is towards the price per m2 that is now a bit higher, but the prices of the options a bit lower. It all balances out, so the final result should be more or less the same. (if you want to read some more about this difference - but i would not recommend it - Updated financial estimate - #19 by els)
remark: i am adding a ‘content file’ to this folder, explaining what the different documents mean…
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@lee: should the document you made with the ‘history of JET-14 up until the vote’ not be included in this folder as well?
and maybe add @Caro 's simulations of the sun/light impact? (
Just for completeness… Don’t know if it’s all that urgent:
- the back part of the garden (behind the Idefix building), was suggested to be private to the ground floor apartments of that building => define a price for those gardens as well?
- studying the ‘how money bikes need to be stored in our bikeshed’, i wonder how this will work. I assume we will define a number of bike places per type of unit, with the possibility that some people will be able to ‘buy or sell’ some extra bike places to meet their needs => price to be defined or to be negotiated between the reeflings having too much or too little bike places?
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Composing a set of documents for the newlings to get an overview is on my list, but I need to prioritise other things first. The summary document now sits in the “proposals” folder (which makes sense), so even now it should be easy to retrieve (there’s also a link in the plenary meetings agenda).
Including Caro’s light simulations would be a great win, but as long as they are not adjusted as per François’s comments (11 am the sunlight is perpendicular + the buildings on the left are 1.5 too high) my view is that this does not help the newlings to make an adequate assessment of the light. I left a placeholder in the summary document, so we can also add it there.
These are interesting points, so it would be great if you could bring them to the attention of the future helping circle that will be looking into this. For now however we don’t have the resources for it, and I think it’s also important to be aware that it is not possible or meaningful at this stage to increase the granularity of the price estimate.
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Could we maybe move the sum up post above into a new post to make it easier to retrieve?
And I will modify the initial post of this thread to include the Jet-14 simulation file for calculation of size and price, it’s the only information that is relevant to this specific thread I think.
Question: I’m making the simulation file public and not sharing it by internal link, right?
Included a note on this in the folder so that people take the simulation with caution if they end up finding it
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@Sarah I clicked on the calculator, and it looks like it’s not the latest version?
Also: in the version that is shared currently (publicly) we are giving access to the entire JET-14 budget. This is something I’d only do with the consent of the architects, so I would rather remove it for now. Would that work?
@els, in the latest version that I downloaded I saw that the safety margin is now set at 15%. Can you tell me why?
@ both, I put a copy of the calculator in the Onboarding Package, which is of course sub-optimal because this way it doesn’t take on board any corrections. Can it be an option for you to move the calculator to the Onboarding Package? My reasoning would be that from now it will only be newlings who need it, and in any case the Onboarding Package is the source for all Reeflings for important documents like the Onboarding Manual, the IT manuals etc. If that would work for you, can you please delete the copy and move the original?
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@Lee , can you tell me which document you’re referring to?
For me the latest version is this one :Login – Nextcloud
and the safety margin is set at 10%
the impact of the finishing is based on the calculation of the architect. Removing it would mean that you couldn’t calculate it any more.
i would move the whole folder then, but that is with the plans of the architects (and other things), so don’t know if that would be ok (but they are allready shown on the presentation so i guess it would be ok)
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@Lee @sarah
what i’ve did (and feel free to change it again):
- i made a copy of the jet-14 simulation file (internal link) which is for me the latest version of the file i created. (there is a big part that was copied from sarah’s file: the part to calculate the size of your apartment)
- I know Sarah also has one, but i thought it didn’t have the finishing cost included, or the impact of that finishing on the final price/m2 and that’s why we decided to continue with mine. (but maybe i am wrong about that). I would still continue with ‘my’ version, because soon we will have the extra 2 and 4 procent on top of the casco price , which will even make it more complicated.
- in that copy - for the part of the architects calculations- i added the amounts as much as possible, and deleted all titles so now it’s very hard to deduct something from those figures. So for me that garantuees the protection of the architects work (you still see the entire JET-14 budget though, but you don’t know what it represents), and it allows to calculate the impact of the finishing on the final price/m2.
- i would keep both the copies, as it’s now very hard to make any changes in the one in the onboarding package, as you don’t see the details of the calculation any more. We’ll just have to make changes in two documents, which is sth i can live with
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Oh, I thought it was…
But I’ve removed it for now, let me know what file you want to be added. Or shall I ask the architects?
I’m not sure that it is the case that only exploring members will be looking for it as the Programme will probably have to be redone for some. So personnally, I would leave it where it is for now, with a document with a link to it in the onboarding package…
One more reason for not moving it I would say
That wasn’t the reason but that is the conclusion!
Agreed!
So if that’s a good solution for you Lie, I will then include that link into the first post.
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Hi, I’m sorry if my questions have already been answered somewhere in this thread, I couldn’t find it.
-
Do the prices in the spreadsheet include all costs, meaning notary, registration etc.?
-
What does ‘casco’ mean concretely? Does it mean you have everything but a kitchen, bathroom, toilet and floorings? Or is there more that we need to finish?
Thanks for your answer!
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hi @anon36120994 ,
The costs in the spreadsheet include all costs, notary and registration included.
In het meeting we had yesterday with the architects we asked some questions related to that. What they said is that an insurance for the construction (assurance tout risques chantier) and the connection to electricity, sewage system, water,… are not included.
What is casco: the structure of the building will be there with a roof, windows, doors. You will have electricity, water pipes, … coming to your apartment, but will need to foresee the distribution of it inside your apartment. There won’t be any division in rooms, no ceilings, no floor, no kitchen, … so basically an empty box which is airtight and watertight.
Yesterday we also asked a question about this to the architects: the minimum they will deliver is casco, if some people would like them to deliver the unit with the finishing included, that’s not a problem
=> there will be a post written one of these days, in this thread, which will high-level talk about the different possibilities…
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Great! that’s very helpful,
thanks a lot
thomas
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I’m losing the overview a little, but here are a couple of points …
File management
In terms of working methods we’ve had some bad glitches when too many similar files were circulating. The solution include:
-
Put all the obsololete files in an “archive” folder
-
Use the file names to make it easy to identify the right one (e.g. by adding (old) or (current version) to the file name
Currently there are even two folders where we have estimations, one in the Team Finance folder (estimations and scenarios) and another one in Team Building (JET-14 FS).
Would you be willing to look into this, and put some order in it, so that there is less potention for confusion?
Next up I would like to propose to save the one and only current version in the Onboarding Package, because this is supposed to be the place where all Reeflings can retrieve the essential documents (e.g. manuals etc). Would that work for you?
Sharing the JET-14 overall budget
@els, I don’t understand your reply to my question.
My concern / objection is that I’d rather not have the overall budget (i.e. the one adding up to 8.8 million) to be publicly accessible. Is that compatible with your work, and if yes, can you please take this document offline?
Hi lee
The problem is that it is not compatible. I see several options:
- You keep the detailed file in the Team building folder with all the rest of the JET-14 info. The exploring members can access it as soon as they have a nextcloud account.
- You keep a simulation file in the onboarding package. this simulation file is a simplified version as it doesn’t link to the architects results. This version will gives an underestimated amount as taxes/fees are not included. In the Team building folder you keep the more complicated version for a more accurate simulation. In this file taxes and fees are included
- You keep a simulation file in the onboarding package. this simulation file is a simplified version as it doesn’t link to the architects results. In the Team building folder you remove the more complicated version for a more accurate simulation, to have one single file.
My preference goes to option 1, but have a feeling this won’t work for you…
(for now i have removed the file from the onboarding package)
I am completely lost on this. Can we maybe talk about it, on the phone or when we see each other?
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@els : I don’t see clearly where I can help on this, but please do ping me if you see something I could take away from you
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