Mid june the architects have sent us a contract. We (team building and team finance) went through this with them before the holidays and asked for some minor corrections.
A few weeks ago they came back to us with the question ‘when can we sign it’.
We preferably want to sign this with the Société Simple (named ‘Coral’) as this is the legal vehicle we need to run the construction. This setup of the Société Simple is foreseen towards mid October.
=> The architects are ok to wait till then to sign the contract
In the compromis - we are now in the process of signing with 4 full members and marcel - there is the mention of a humidity problem on the level of the common wall between no 475 (‘our site’) and 479. I mentioned this to them so they are aware. I will stil forward this part of the compromis to them on paper, so they can have a closer look.
With the compromis, we also got some extra documents from the seller (Les renseignements d’urbanisme/L’étude de sol réalisée en 2006/Le plan de situation des emprises en sous-sol). These documents were sent to the architects. They have read them and there was nothing alarming in there according to them.
Le programme - inclusion units
I asked them again if they saw any problems with the inclusion units, knowing we would be talking about 6 small units on top of the 3 small units current full members want, leading to 9 small units in a total of more or less 24 units. The architects previously indicated that the commune wants us to respect a division of 1/3 small units (studio and 1 bedrooms), 1/3 medium units (2 bedroom) and 1/3 bigger units (3 bedroom). The architects don’t see this as a possible problem. They think the commune of Jette will be open to this, knowing that it is mainly for inclusion units. They do think - that if we go for this - Oaktree should come and defend this case in the discussion with Jette.
Presentation of the first sketch
I hoped to be able to fix a date. But Francois said he wanted to see with Serge today when about this could happen. This makes me believe that this will be at the earliest in two-3 weeks, but they will keep us (team building) informed.
And here a teaser for the presentation… (ps they use this mock-up to simulate the volumes, the proportions, the relation to the neighbour buildings, but also to simulate the sun/shadow. So far in the mockup the neigbouring buildings, no Reef buildings yet)
Would you be willing to ask the architects to make a new planning? Every week is counted now, and my sense is that time is slipping away for lack of a precise timing.
Also if we could have the first meeting before the 12th of October, that would really help, because this way we get the chance to take the time to discuss whatever needs to be discussed at that plenary meeting on that Saturday. Can you please check whether this would be possible for them? TIA!
hi @Lee
I personally would wait till after the presentation of the first sketch, to ask a more detailed planning.
The first sketch will give us a view on
where we land financially with the add-ons we asked for (elevators, extra common space,…)
whether there is a need to maybe ask modifications on the level of the number of certain types of units (i guess there might be a lack of smaller units)
and thus give us an idea on how drastic the presented sketch will need to be modified.
To be able to give a quick feedback to the architects after the presentation and thus speeding up the process to get to a final division of the building in units, the choice of the units by the full members and obtaining a price/unit, I think it’s necessary that
we take a decision as a group on the inclusion units soonish. As mentioned above the feeling of the architects is that the commune will embrace this part of the project. (i see you set a deadline on this, thanks!)
we get a view on how much money we would have available to finance our extra wishes
we get a view on what we want to spend this extra money on (spend everything on these extra wishes, keep a part for costs not foreseen in the current 4370 euro/m2, keep a part for later wishes (garden, solar storage battery, …),…)
I guess if you want an adapted high level planning (i can work on that if you like), it’s adding a delay of 4 to 6 weeks on the last communicated planning
It’s all good to me and I don’t want to micro-manage when and how to ask for a plan. I’d just like to note that it is very important that we use every week, because we need to make it to the stage of the avant-projet to make it easier to recruit new member, which will bring more financial and emotional safety. In that sense the “we might get a meeting in 2-3 weeks from now” (which we’ve been saying since mid-August) makes me feel a bit anxious (I’m saying that without any blame), because I would like to get more control over the planning.
My suggestion would therefore be to make a more precise request to the architects, and ask for a presentation in the week of the 30th. I would then explain that we are really pressed to finish the avant-projet as soon as possible, and that we are feeling a little stressed, and then ask for an updated version of the gannt chart (planning), and possibly a tentative planning of the next meetings together with list of feedback that we’ll be expected to deliver at every point.
As said, I don’t want t micro-manage how it’s done, as long as we get more control over the planning, and possibly a shared understanding of what we can all do to keep the planning on track.
I must say that i don’t feel really comfortable in this position, (and I don’t mean that i want you to take it over). I find it important to build a good relation with them, which for me is about giving and taking. And now i don’t feel like we are in a position to put stress on them and make huge demands
we have introduced our programme more or less 6 weeks later than what they (the architects) would have liked
they indicated to want to have the contract signed by end of august and in the end we are going to sign it end of october (if all goes well)
they’ve sent us an invoice September 10th, that we -according to the contract- should pay within 14days to a month after receiving it. We will pay more or less a third within this period, the largest part they’ve accepted for us to pay a month later.
i do understand your concern, me and i think the rest of the group share it as well i think
I will call them Thursday (today and tomorrow are impossible for me to do it) if they haven’t answered my question about a timing for the presentation of the sketch
as mentioned in my message above, i do think we have a responsability on our side as well to keep the planning on track. Some steps that i think should be started up from our side (mentioned in the message above). All good if you don’t think they should be started up, or maybe you already have a proposal in mind,… just wanted to share this concern i have
I have shared already on several occasions with the architects our need to get asap a view on the units and the price so we know which units are left over, as it blocks us to get more full members in The Reef, which will give us the financial safety for the rest of the project. So I really think they already get this.
I do appreciate having team autonomy. We have a team building meeting next week where we will discuss the further steps, and we will consider what you’ve suggested
Of course I also want to keep a good relationship with the architects, and of course we need to take responsibility for our own parts as well. What I see however in the original planning is that the “esquisse” stage takes about 7-8 weeks after submission of the programme. We submitted the programme on 15 programme, and even if you take the end of August as the starting point for the 7-8 weeks, it means that we should be reaching the end of the esquisse stage shortly if we stick to the plan. In that context, in my view, asking for a concrete date, is not making a huge demand.
I do hear the points that you are raising though. Happy to discuss in further detail next time we see each other.
This might sound obvious, but agree. Pricing the units is mission-critical. Everything depends on it, and we cannot move forward until that is done.
Agreed, and that is why, as a token of good will, we have paid their invoice on the same day as we received it, and while being on holiday. I do not think many commercial clients do that. So that’s a few karma points for The Reef.
I understand (and share) you guys’ concern but I also agree with Els. Let’s be on the case, and try to keep on schedule, but let’s not be over pressuring either. We’ve asked for a lot of adaptation, which is fine, but it is understandable that it would take them longer to work out than if we had just told them, yep, just go ahead with what is in the FS.
That said, concern heard, and team building will be attentive to get a clear plan once we know what the next steps are…
Sorry, Sarah: asking for deadlines, and that deadlines be respected, is basic business etiquette, not “pressuring”, let alone “overpressuring”. I have to do it in my job, and so do you in yours, and so does everyone else. Please don’t buy into the narrative that they are doing us a favour.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ask for deadlines.
There was a timeline and a request for a clear date was made.
I only wanted to back Els’ position on the situation as it currently is; my point was only about the decision to not send a second request right after the first one.
And actually I was wrong, checking the scheduling document they gave us, they are actually meeting their proposed delivery time.
But let’s not get held up on this, as I said, we heard the need, and we’re happy to get to work on how to best move things along in a way that we are also comfortable with. We talked about it during our meeting yesterday, and our proposal will be to request the reunions de travail on a scheduled frequency. That way, we can refine the plan regularly and have more clarity about how things are going regarding the time frame and when we can expect deliverables. We will share this with the group once we have ironed out the details with them.
If that’s ok with you, could we agree to move any more exchange on this to a IRL discussion, unless they require short-term action?
Asking for a meeting schedule sounds like a great plan, thanks a lot for that.
Next up, can you please ask the architects for an updated version of the gannt chart (Excel sheet with horizontal bars for the different stages of the project)? It’s something Team Recruitment & Onboarding dearly needs, and which would also benefit the entire group. It’s something that shoudn’t take more than five minutes, and which, as @alberto points out above, is a standard thing to ask for in a business relationship.
As to the wider issue on how to relate to the architects, let’s indeed look for an opportunity to have an IRL chat.
Yes, our plan was to ask them that after the presentation of the esquisse and after we have worked out what the next steps are on our side.
Does that work for you?
Also can you explain what your thinking is and clarify exactly what information you are trying to get?
I get the feeling that what you want is to know when we can choose our apartments and that your idea is to change the order in the planning so that it happens earlier. Is that it?
If so, I think this might require a conversation, more than just asking for a planning. Because I’m really not sure that it will be possible… From what I understand, they can only work out the final price of the project after the Avant projet (during which they get quotes). And that seems like necessary information for us to choose our apartments…
is it possible to have a coordination meeting soonish?
I have the impression that would largely facilitate the discussion, create a better understanding of the needs and clear out the misunderstandings (if there are any)
A gannt chart is like a schedule, with a visual overview on the different stages, when they start and how long they last. It’s the most standard thing in project management there is. It’s like a map when going on out on a hike. I need it to get an overview and to structure my thoughts, and I reckon it will be useful for many people in The Reef.
I’m not going to make a fuss about it, but in essence no. As described above, it’s an essential tool, it’s a standard thing, and the sooner we can get one, the sooner I’ll feel like I get a grip again.
It’s on my list. I’m aiming for the week of the 14th of October.
Agreed. We run a 9 mil project, we need some project management tools. “Do X, then when that it finished move on to doing Y” is just too risky in terms of time and money, not to speak about the reduced accountability.
We have talked about that during our meeting, and Johannes pointed out we needed to ask them what tool they are using for project management, and align with that, or if they don’t, propose some. So the question is not if but when, and we were going to discuss that in the first réunion de travail. We could already mention it online though.
@Lee : personally I’m not against asking before our next réunion de travail, but for now I don’t manage to really see what exactly you require
My thinking was that we will understand better what is needed next after the meeting and some discussions on our side (depending on the choices we make, they might say ‘this specific thing will take us more time to work out’ for instance).
What you describe sounds to me like what we received from them (the document in ‘planing’), but I know you know that one… So I’m a bit at a loss here, but if you already have a clear idea of what you need, and you think they should be able to deliver it, then on my side it’s fine to go ahead and ask that. But I would need more precision on what’s missing in that document at this point in time to be able to request it.
Maybe a phone call with either me or Els could help? Or maybe even ask it directly yourself?
But I don’t know what @els you think about all that?
