Thanks for having a go at this Sarah. Tbh I expected it to be complicated and costly, which is why I wanted to make sure we really need the insurances. I am at work now and then there’s the Reef plenary so won’t be able to have a look today. Let’s connect on this though.
Indeed, it’s much harder than I expected…
Let’s coordinate soon on this then, and see what input we need from Lee…
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In terms of price, I tried to get an idea of a rough quote, but they can"t really do that without the numbers in the form…
As an idea, here is the info I have from Ethias:
- minimum fee for RC générale : 150euros/year
- minimum fee for RC Administrateurs: 170euros/year
- Minimum fee for Accidents corporels : 150 euros/year. This minimum price covers about 350 “prestations” from volunteers (ie number of times somebody does something for the ASBL) per year
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Not cheap but I feared worse 
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@ClaudiaPr , @Lee would you have a look at the filled in questionnaires (internal link) and see if there is anything missing or that needs changing?
A few things to note:
- I will ask for a devis with and without the building site visits, to see whether it makes sense to include it already or not. I can also ask for an idea of the price for 50 vs 25 people. Personnally, I think I would prefer to get everything now (50 people + site visits), to make sure we don"t forget to add it later. But I guess if it’s massively different, we might prefer to extend the liability later…
- I have gone for the more restricted coverage for DVV, except for the accident corporel; hope that works
- For ethias, I still need to work out how many “prestations” we would need… I will try calling them to get more clarity, but let me know if you have any insights on how to do this…
- For the accidents corporels, the explanation of what’s needed are in the first folder (internal link). Let me know if you have any insight on whether to calculate the fee or do it retrospectively…
Thanks so much @Sarah!
I had a quick look at the forms, and from what I could see it all looked fine. I personally don’t expect too many differences in price, but then it wouldn’t be the first time that I got surprised by insurance companies’ logic 
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Thanks Sarah, the options you chose on the forms sound reasonable.
I think it’s a good idea to have a comparison of the price for 25 vs 50 people. Personally, I have no clue whether it makes a difference.
Actually, I am not sure our “activities” fall under this category and whether we are considered as “volunteers”. DVV makes a clear distinction on its form between members and volunteers. In that case we wouldn’t need to do the calculation. 
This is not so clear to me. If we don’t do it retrospectively, does it mean we need to know in advance the exact number of “voluntary services”? Again, let’s clarify what a “voluntary service” is. In any case, I don’t think we would get beyond 350.
Yes, I was thinking exactly the same but I calle them and it actually does apply. But they also told me to not fill that in if I wasn’t sure…
So for this one, yes, it would apply. And yes, if we don"t do it retrospectively we have to estimate how much “volontary service” we would have…
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That is strange and annoying 
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So in the end, even for the RC, they are asking to calculate ETPs (Equivalents temps plein ; “1 ETP correspond à 220 jours de prestations par an”) . So the total would be the number of times there is an event with the reef * the number of people on that occasion (regardless of how much time they spend during that event…).
I’ve tried to come up with some numbers based on the average numbers I put in the forms (see my rough thinking here).
Here is what I’ve worked out :
-
25 people no site: 2 ETP
-
25 people, with site or 50 people, no site: 3,5ETP
-
50people with site: 6 ETP
I am unsure whether that gives an accurate picture or not…
@ClaudiaPr (and @Lee if you don"t know what to do with your time 
) : could you try and make the calculation for yourself and see if you agree with me?
I called them again, and as a baseline for the RC, they charge the minimum fee of 150 euros for less than 3 ETP, and then it’s roughly 50euros per ETP for the RC. I’ve made the calculations for the accidents corporels in the document.
Given our current tight budget, I expect it would be better to save about 400-450 euros/years for now if possible (let me know if that"s not actually the case…), and not go straight for 6ETP.
So if you agree with my calculation, we could go for 3 ETP and reevaluate if we grow more than 35 people or so, or if we find a site. For consistency, I would use the same estimate for the “accidents coporels”, which means that we would be above the minimum rate of 150 euros (it would then be around 300 euros)
The alternative would be to go with 2 ETP, which means 150euros for RC + 200 euros for accidents corporels, but we will have to reevaluate it sooner when we grow.
Thoughts? We could also decide to discuss that last decision in plenary, and/or after we have also received the DVV quote…
(I would understand if all of this makes no sense whatsoever!)
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Hello @Sarah,
Two things have changed recently:
- We learned that our most important legal vehicle will be the société simple rather than the asbl
- There are significantly less new Full Members than we expected
Given this, do you think it’s still worth it to go through with the selection of a new Board and the surgical changes to the statutes, or shall we rather spare our energy for other things?
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For the statutes, there is not much work left, but yes, I’m not sure it makes sense to expand the board now… hence it is not necessary to keep going with the statutes…
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Shall we go ahead with the insurances though? I feel that we still need to be covered in the same way, no? So I would say that the civil liability and accidents insurance we still need…
In which case maybe I’ll create a new thread and prepare a proposal when I receive both quotes.
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I agree.
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So… Reactivating this old long post 
Mainly for you @Lee , to let you know that @reef-finance has taken over the job with the insurance (quite a bit too late, mea culpa). And after discussing, we don"t really see the advantages of getting a “Accidents Corporels” insurance - especially as the process is a bit harder and we may have to pay quite a lot.
I think it may be worth relooking into it when we have the site and we start having to go there during the buildigg phase; but I’m not sure what it would do before hand.
Do you have strong feelings about this?
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Thanks a lot @Sarah for picking this up.
I absolutely don’t have strong feelings about this, so I’d be very happy to rely on what you have learned about this.
I think I would also like to relaunch the idea of selecting a new Board, say maybe by the end of September, when the current Associate Members have had the opportunity to become Full Members?
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@Sarah and @ugne: I received a sign request related to some insurance, but it is not clear to me what is. Can you please explain me in a couple of lines what this is about and how much it costs? TIA!
There is one insurance for Board Members (170euros), and one for Civil Liability (150euros).
I think that you received a sign request for the quotes they had sent us.
But actually today I received the final contracts. I uploaded all of it on nextcloud (internal link), along with the “conditions générales” if you want to have a look.
@alberto could you generate a sign request for these? Thanks!
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Generated.
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