I’m starting a new thread to keep track of this information.
@reef-finance @Lee @Sarah
Some feedback after my meeting with the insurance broker today:
insurance for the board members of the Sosim
- they couldn’t do a simulation because they need the bce number
- it should be between 400 and 800 euro’s
- there shouldn’t be a big difference between insurance companies (not on a content level or price level) because it’s a legal insurance
- what makes it rather 400 or rather 800 euro’s?
- montant du chiffre d’affaire (the turnover?)
- valeur d’assurance / montant à assurer (the insured value?)
- is it better to take our insurance with Ethias as we have our insurance for the asbl with Ethias? They said (but didn’t sound convinced) it’s better to take an insurance at another company, in case there are disputes between the asbl and the Sosim
- It includes ‘défense en justice’ (defense in court) and all mistakes made by the board. It doesn’t include volantary mistakes (e.g. a board member stealing money)
- the insurance covers all board members, future and current ones, we wouldn’t need to keep them informed if there would be a change of the board
Assurance chantier tout risque (construction insurance)
- can be taken by the ‘maitre d’ouvrage’ (project owner = us) or the entrepreneur. But he seemed it’s more logic that we take it, as we might not only work with 1 entrepreneur, and it also covers the architects work
- it should be taken before the start of the work.
- when taking it , we need to have a view on when the works would start. So now is too early.
- you could take it one day in advance, but better to take it a month or so in advance. (You need to indicate the date at which the works would start, so in theory you could take it now allready.)
- It will be obliged by this contract to take a ‘état des lieus’ (inventory?) of all the immediate neighbours.
- I asked what the immediate neighbours were: he said that’s not clear. It’s not only the once touching the site, best also some neighbours in front of the site (which might have damage because of drilling,…).
- this taking of the inventory, is done by the architects, so i guess our architects will know what and who
- it is possible that a neighbour will refuse an ‘inventory’. In that case we should write ‘une recommandé’ (registered letter) saying that he/she refused an inventory and thus cannot claim us for any damage done by our works
- this insurance ‘stops’ when people move into their appartments, or start to do the interiour paintings. From that moment onwards, the insurance will insure damage due to the works for another 2 years.
- The insurance insures 2 things: damage done to our building we are constructing + damage done to third parties (neighbours,…)
- How much does this cost? It’s expressed by a ‘taux pourmille’ and on top you have a tax. The taux pourmille is negotiable and also depends on a questionnaire we need to fill in it (he gave the example: if you would chose to install a ‘pompe à challeur géothermique’, you would need to drill profoundly, this creates a risk, certainly in a city as brussels where you have a dense network of subground metro’s, pipelines,…). He said he was doing a project of 1750000 and said the taux pourmille was 2,31. He also said, the higher the amount/budget, the lower the taux pourmille/the more negotiable it is. He thought that for our project it would be around 20.000 euro (18000 for the insurance and 9,75 % for the tax = 2000 euro).
- la franchise would be between 2500 and 5000 euro
- there might be a correction of the amount to pay at the end of the works. The taux pourmille is calculated on the total of construction costs (architect costs, costs of the work done by entreprises, taxes,…). This will be an estimation when taking the insurance and will be reevaluated at the end of the ‘chantier’, so we might have to pay extra at the end
Other insurances
protection in court
- he advised as well to take a ‘protection in court’ (défense en justice) e.g. if the architects would sue us for paying late or we would sue architects, enterprises for delaying the ‘chantier’ too much…
- how much would this cost: difficult to say: between 500 and 100000, depends again on a questionaire that we would need to fill in
RC professionelle and RC exploitation
- didn’t completely get this.
- he said this wouldn’t be necessary in our case.
- one is for intellectual damage (professionelle): e.g. if we would give certain advice that in the end would be wrong
- RC exploitation: if you would be going somewhere and you would damage that company in a physical way. (e.g. you give a presentation at a company and you damage something at their company)
Accident de travail
- in case we would hire people ourselves and pay them ourselves (but then we would need a hr department or sth) then we would need to take this insurance.
- i guess we will only be working with independant people so no need probably for this
remark
- something he came back too in the end and now, writing down things i cannot remember if it was linked to the insurance for the board or the insurance ‘tout risques chantier’. They said we would need to have an idea of our forecast of expenses per year (in géneral) (prévisions par années). And indicate if this would be very different one year from another. (thinking about it, it should be for the insurance of the board members)
- they were ‘sympa’ i have their business cards, and offered to answering any other questions we would have
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Thanks Els!!
I got some info about an offer from DVV that I saved here. I will fill in the questionnaire to get a quote. No signe of ethias for the moment…
I’m not sure exactly who you are referring to when you say “somebody hurting themself” (Reef member or external?), but we decided to not go with an “accidents corporels” insurance at the time ( which would cover for a member of the ASBL hurting themself), and we only got civil liability (ie if we break something in a room that we rent, or we hurt somebody - I’m not sure exactly whether that also includes somebody hurting themselves at one of our events with no member of the Reef being involved in the accident, I can check with them when they answer about the SoSim board)
Two things to note:
- if we expand the group in the next few months, we will need to adapt our contract for the civil liability.
- We might want to take an insurance “accidents corporels” to cover members who have to go on the construction site once we start builiding.
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@reef-finance, @Lee : i finally received a document to fill in from Liantis. It’s under the insurance folder of the Sosim => do we still want a devis, knowing the information i shared yesterday + the fact that the Sosim is not for right away? (and i think he might also make the same remark: as long as you don’t have a bce number, it won’t be possible)
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I think we can put this on hold now.
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