Here is a link to our report on the meeting with Marcel Heymans, drafted by Ugne : https://c301.nl.tabdigital.eu/s/Tj5WbdTcsw8GRoF
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Hi reef-finance,
Summary
The short answer we received from Mark is “Yes, do it as soon as possible, if need be based on estimated prices. And then do a second round just before the moment of the purchase.”
Full reply
Below is a machine-translated (corrected) copy of question and answers.
1) At what stage did you hold the confesseur process in Brutopia (or in the other groups)? Was that at the very beginning, or rather just before you started looking for a site?
“The confesseur seems useful to me after a common and private program has been decided to which a probable budget can also be linked + it is clear where the site should be looked for. Then an important step has already been taken and it would be a good time to confront everyone with their financial possibilities.”
2) If it was rather in the beginning:
- On the basis of what financial cost data did you hold the confesseur process?
- Or also: how can someone ever know what he/she/they can afford if we do not know what our budget looks like, the exact price per m² and the “fourchette” / “accordéon” in function of the sales value?
- Or also: should we wait for a more precise estimate, or can we start the process with the estimate of S+F (3500 euros / m² (with finishing and parking)?
"You can’t help but work with a theoretical budget. So start from the current market price in Brussels, but then everything included. If the market price has been determined, a group can also decide to stay below that by 20%, which of course has an impact on the program or location of the site.
This theoretical market price is an average price which means that once the site has been chosen the possibility is examined whether a fork in the price is possible. For example, if you buy a beguinage, everyone has exactly the same home and a fork is not possible. At this stage, it is only possible to work with “rough” figures, but these are good enough to confront everyone with the financial reality.
It is a good exercise to find a financial balance between the private and joint programme. This balance can also be made clear with simple examples: based on the current desired program, a 2-room apartment of 90m2 has a private cost of X€ and a common cost of Y€. If I have a budget that is only the amount X€ I might be able to settle for 70m2 or a more limited budget for the community. Of course, the latter is only possible if everyone agrees with this.
This exercise must be made before you begin the search for a site. This is because there is no time for such discussion when the site is found. This theoretical exercise can be seen as a benchmark. Everyone knows that if a site is purchased that is more expensive than this “benchmark” after completion, cuts will have to be made in the private or /and common program."
3) If it was rather towards the end: How, then, can we make an early assessment of whether our resources correspond to our wishes?
“I am therefore in favour of a relatively early check (see.1) of the finances because this brings reality into the project. A second test is of course necessary at the time of purchase. There it is important that only those people buy that we know can also handle this financially.”
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Hello Albert,
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Hi @reef-finance ,
Following our meeting with Marcel and Alberto’s with Jean Pierre, plus Mark’s answer to Lie’s questions, could we have an online meeting to discuss what we do next? It seems we would need to organise ourselves quickly, decide on confesseur or even confesseurs’ choice and start filling the agenda with meetings, correct? Or do we have to wait till 15 Sep to report and decide then? Just to be clear on the process. Thanks
ugne
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That would be @reef-finance’s next team meeting. Unfortunately, we need to reschedule now (see). Malaz, Céline, do you want to meet at my place (5 mins walk from Brutopia) before the meeting with the architects (if you are even coming to that meeting)?
I’ll come to the meeting with the architects, but I can’t make it earlier.
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Hello @reef-finance, I created a draft for the confesseur process. It is here: https://c301.nl.tabdigital.eu/f/30089, in the “Financial viability” folder of Team Finance. Could you revise and hopefully finalize while Celine and I are gone?
I moved to the same folder also the report from the meeting with Marcel Heymans (thanks @Celine_D and @ugne ).
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Hello @reef-finance,
I read Alberto’s draft and as far as I can see it looks good to go.
Would you be willing to present this document as a proposal at the next plenary meeting on 29 September?
For The Reef I think it would be a big win if we could move on with this, plus we also don’t have any other points for the plenary meeting of the 29th, so it would be really great if this could work out.
Can you please let me know?
Thanks a lot!
Hi @reef-finance , hi @Lee ,
I agree that Alberto’s draft doc looks good & it would be indeed great moving forward, but i won’t be able to attend the online session on the 29 Sep, as that night i leave to London to see my sister. Could anybody else from the team take this task (presenting)?
Thanks in advance!
Ugne
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Hi @ugne,
Thanks for your reply.
My concern was that within there may have been a need in the Team to continue the discussion, but at the same time I think it’s important to not overcomplicate things that can be simple.
So unless @Mas and @Celine_D see a major stumbling block that I am not aware of, I would propose to put the document on the agenda of the plenary on the 29th, counting on Alberto and/or Céline to take care of the presentation?
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Hello @reef-finance! I have been made aware that the discussion on the confesseur process is going to be the centerpiece of the plenary of the 29th – it is urgent to kickstart it, and we have no other topic for that plenary. So, two things need to happen:
- The team needs to approve the document. It obviously works for me, and Ugne has approved it. We need the approval (with modifications, if necessary) from Céline and Malaz ASAP.
- We need to find someone to present. We know Ugne is not available. I do plan to participate in the plenary, but @Lee and I will be on an island off the coast of Sicily, and we might have good Internet or not. We cannot even test it in advance, because it will be our first day there! So, it is risky for me to be the presenter. That leaves Céline and Malaz: is one of you willing to present the document?
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Hello @reef-finance ! I read the document.
About @alberto 's comment on the last paragraph: Marcel Heymans actually recommended having someone from The Reef go to Immotheker first (not after the confesseur process), to introduce the project to them and ask for general advice.
I agree with the other parts of the proposal.
@Mas would you like to present this to the plenary? If not, I’ll do it.
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Indeed, but his recommendation, as I recall it, is to do it as a group. So, in practice, this would not influence the process for individual Reeflings.
Great! I’ll still be there.
So, @reef-finance, congratulations on getting this proposal passed. Thanks again @Celine_D for presenting.
Next steps:
- Contact the confesseurs and let them know they are on.
- Identify someone that can act as a “secretary”, booking the first 3-4 appointments, hopefully on the same day. It can be one of us, but since we are very busy, we could also ask someone else to volunteer a couple of hours.
Who can take the lead on this?
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Hi @reef-finance ,
Sorry for not being there last Thursday and thanks for getting the proposal accepted.
I am very busy with work, but could contact both confesseurs and ask for their availability (i ma sure they will be very flexible), so the main thing will be contacting the reeflings and coordinating the dates. Indeed, i will be aiming for one day having 3-4 meetings in a row. Can somebody just help me with booking the Brutopia or any other place for the meeting (when i have a date agreed) or should this be online? We agreed while talking to both of them that the first meeting should be ideally face to face.
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Hey Ugné, thanks for that. I sent you on a provarte channel the contact info of the two confesseurs.
Jean-Pierre proposed to commandeer the meeting room of Stekke&Fraas. I guess he’ll do it himself, but better check.