- checked with Lucia yesterday, no need any more for a meeting before monday
- so for Monday: meeting live at the architects at 17:00. We can start with the Team Building questions so team finance can arrive half an hour later. Contacted alberto, and he’s ok doing it live…
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We (sarah and maybe still richard) were talking maybe to bring this up in the next plenary…
The architects indicated to want to have the contract signed preferably by the end of august, and me and maybe also sarah will be on holiday for the plenary in august (foreseen august 14th), we should maybe aim to get this presented on the plenary of July 23rd?
@Lee @ugne : is there still time left on the plenary of July 23rd to present the topic ‘contract with the architects?’
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In principle there should be space on the agenda.
How much time would you need? What would be the objective of the agenda point: shared understanding or consent?
the goal would be to do a summary of what we understood from it today and make a post about it.
In the plenary a round of reactions/questions related to that post/the contract.
If possible consent, but there is the financial aspect, so i guess there won’t be a consent
I find it difficult for time: 20 min?
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hi @Sarah @Richard ,
I made this document, it’s the contract with the questions/answers/remarks we asked/received during the meeting, translated to english. It’s based on the report sarah made.
There are a few things i am not sure about: they are in yellow.
My suggestion would be to make a post with a link to this document , to read before the plenary of the 23rd (to be posted before sunday evening?)
In the plenary i would repeat the most important things:
- general construction company
- finishing included or not, or a combination => to be known when they start asking for price offers
- we will need sb for the reunion de chantier, or it can be mark if we don’t find sb
- financial details: what we are expected to pay this year, next year before the construction starts and the total
any comments, suggestions?
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I don’t think I’m the Richard you want to speak to. 
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@reef-finance : in today’s team building it was clear to us, that it is not clear what is meant exactly by the ‘maitre de chantier’, this was brought up by the notary. Can you clear out what his responsabilities/tasks exactly are ?
I think this page provides a good summary: https://metiers.siep.be/metier/chef-de-chantier/
As mentioned by the architects on Monday, this function would be covered by the Entreprise Generale.
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Hi @reeflings ,
This week we (Richard, Sarah, Lucia and myself) sat together with the architects to go through the contract they propose…
It’s based on the contract they had with ‘De Spiegel’ (another cohousing they worked with).
Our questions and their remarks/answers are integrated in the contract.
The goal is to go through your questions/concerns/… in the plenary of July 23rd…
Enjoy your weekend
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For information: the debrief on Mark’s comments on the maître de chantier are in a separate post: Maïtre de chantier
Hi @els,
I have some doubts about spending a lot of plenary time on this. This is highly technical, and we have had our technical people (Building and Finance) look at it in detail. I don’t think it is necessary that everybody understands every paragraph in the contract.
Can it be an option to collect questions in writing from those who are interested, and then do a short presentation of the key points at the plenary meeting?
Works for me…
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Thanks Els! And sorry for the late reply… I find it a bit hard to be on top of ER at the moment…
I might ask Lucia for her notes, she might have caught some stuff I didn’t
I’m not sure of that timeline. I think they said to make sure to ask for both options when asking for quotes, and that we can decide later but I didn’t catch when.
I wonder though if we might need to know that before paying them as the percentage is based on the total cost, so casco +finitions…
I still don’t think it is the same thing, but didn’t have time to read Lie’s post, it might be clearer there…
We should try and come up with an estimate for all the little costs soon… if the connection to sewage, etc… is indeed 5000, that’s quite an addition, and people should be made aware about it. I can take this on.
Did we attribute the action point to team finance to work out taxe sur la bâtisse and the permit fee, etc? @RichardB ?
About the “murs mitoyens”, I wonder if we might need to buy them back if we want to do vertical gardens?
Might not be a big priority, but I just wonder if that needs to be discussed before the compromis as it involves a géomètre and the notary??
It might seem like a little detail, but I think it would be quite important to make the site nicer as the high walls are a big minus of the site; and also it would make the site fresher in the summer, which might be important…
@RichardB can you ask the notary about this?
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- i agree, and not only little, all costs not foreseen in the 4370 euro/m2 .
I can help with that if you want…
- i don’t think so, as long as we stay on ‘our side’ i think it’s all good (and in case of vertical gardens we do). It’s only when we want to construct/do sth on the neighbours half. In that case we should buy his half (that’s the way i understood it)
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@reeflings, me again…
Referring to this post (a little bit above)
To save time in the plenary, the idea would be to collect questions in writing instead of bringing them up in the plenary. So please reply on this or the above topic if you have any questions on 'the contract with the architects) and tag Richard, Sarah and myself…
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I believe we have a common understanding but there is a mix up of terminology 
In my understanding Maître d’œuvre, Chef de chantier and Maître de chantier all refer to the same function (see link here) which will be performed by someone from the Entreprise Generale. This is nothing we can do in my understanding. Maître d’ouvrage on the other hand refers to us and there are indeed a number of things we need to be doing (or outsource), as laid out in Lie’s post, the contract itself and in what Francois commented during the meeting (e.g. attend the construction site, meetings with the chef de chantier and the architects, sign the PV’s etc.)
We did work on simulations for notary and registration fees and reported back to the group. Login – Nextcloud In a nutshell: Final costs will depend on how much of the registration fees we can recover during the reimbursement. In total we would expect to pay 125k.
I’m not aware of a current action point on the taxe sur la bâtisse. There were occasional exchanges here on ER. If need be, please shout as we have a Team Fianance meeting this Thursday and can bring it on the agenda.
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hi @sarah, started a document with it. (It needs to be out of my head before i go on holiday, otherwise i might forget some things… Can you complete/check?
@Lee : any suggestion where this should be safed. For now i put it under Team Building (where it probably shouldn’t be):
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Ok, will read things again and get back to you on that! 
Ok, will need to check what the architects included in the FS
I’m gonna contact the commune on Friday to ask about this, no worries…
Indeed, the description of maître de chantier does sound like what the entreprise générale would be doing. So does that mean that the notary was just telling us to take an entreprise générale for our project? I feel that it was a bit more than that…
And then the function that Mark is referring to is called something completely different? It’s more like a deputy to the MO?
I guess the names don’t matter too much as long as we have the right people! And if we don’t get confirmation from the notary we will just go with what Mark is suggesting…
For the tax the batisse, i wonder if it’s not worthwhile to try to negotiate it (and put our negotiator or sb on it?). The Spiegel tried but didn’t succeed, but we are x years later. The commune loved our project and i had the impression they were willing to fight for us. It was already mentioned at the commune that the price factor was not an easy one, and if i understood well, the tax the batisse is put into life for big promotors , not for cohousings with a social factor…
(but that doesn’t take away you can call and get info).
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