It’s been a while since I had an EdgeRyders outing!
Hi everybody! I’m really looking forwards to coming.
I'm going to be wearing two hats - as an edgeryders old school network guy, and also as an (occasional) professional futurist. I hope I can lend a few useful tools.
I’m really looking forwards to meeting you all!
Futurespotters
Coming )))
Coming too 
Really looking forward to meeting you all. I don’t plan to speak, except in conversation – preferably late at night and in front of a nice Georgian brew, when the civilians are in bed and the really far-out ideas come out to play. Eh, @hexayurt?
Travel scheduled, woop woop!
SO looking forward to this! Already two session proposals in I definitiely want to participate in …working on my own one too…posting soon!
Comming 
wish to come <3
Dear friends, we (Koka and Anuka) also wish to attand the meeting. Hope to arrange it. <3 i just received the meet-up summary #3. Eager to look through
Representing the Innovation for Development Team, UNDP in Egypt
Hey Everyone!!
So it’s been a while, and I sincerely apologize for my absence. Anyway I’m coming to Spot the Future final event, and I am really really really excited about that! Not only because I’ve never been to Georgia and not in a million years would I have imagined visiting there, but because I get to meet the faces behind the typing
This experience has been relatively new for me; didn’t really understand the approach when we first started working on this initiative. And it took me a looooong while to finally get the purpose of Edgeryders and Spot the Future (so happy I finally did)…which is engaging in meaningful conversation and co-creation/collaboration, as I already mentioned before here
To be completely honest, my only worry, is that this turns out to be more of a networking event for all the change-makers, and that us (as UNDP) we end up leaving the event without a solid outcome. We want to be part of the fun and excitement!
So what I would like to see come out of this event, is first of all learn about the amazing initiatives people are working on in different parts of world because I am sure there will be some ideas that could be useful for our local context.
Second, I want to find out how we can really move forward from this experience, so it’s not that we attend the event, receive the foresight report and then goodbye Spot the Future and that’s it…I think what will be important is to brainstorm together how we can consolidate a real relationship between individuals and organizations, and what they would like to see happening next and share lessons learned and experiences and find solutions to those issues. We really should make use of our time together.
Third, we are also interested in how to get people to become active and engage on online platforms. And how we can use platforms to our advantage. Yes, those who are really interested are the ones that will start engaging anyway…but how can we encourage people to participate in a larger scale and really benefit from that. In Egypt, people tend to prefer physical meetings or they’ve already established their own communities and so on. Furthermore, I must admit, it is hard for me (and others) to keep up with what’s happening on online platforms and to really be committed to online engagement.
My proposal is:
1. Maybe we can organize a UNDP session which includes the three country offices and participants (whoever would like to join) to discuss what happens next and to exchange ideas, experiences and try and come up with some kind of plan/solutions.
2. Some of the Edgeryders team, members of the community and the Egyptian delegation (including UNDP Egypt) can sit together and discuss online engagement, how we can encourage it and overcome obstacles.
What do you guys think???
Lots of love,
Gazbee
Your session to lead
Heya! @gazbee sorour don’t hesitate to turn bits of your comment - insightful by the way! - into an actual session proposal -> simply list it as an Event, give it a title, and let us know what format would you prefer it to be: a facilitated discussion I believe. Put yourself forward to lead it or even better, co-host it with someone in the community so that there is a bigger “we” : we who are learning new things from an institutional perspective, we who are learning new things from the citizenry. That’s the thing, if you think it’s a conversation worth having you’re most probably not alone, and others will jump on board. We just need to create an open space to have the conversation, the more ahead of the event, the better to keep on track and narrow it down for when we meet physically.
Yes!
I agree with @Noemi. Take the lead, @gazbee sorour: we’ll stand by your side and help as best we can. There certainly is potential in this situation we are in!
good points
I agree @Gazbee
Talking about walk-the-talk side of things, I am still waiting for any contact back from you guys at UNDP, as we agreed you would re the carpooling app and your expected help.
As far as online engagement is concerned, I also agree, there needs to be more of it. But what is important is that this online engagement, and participation converts - and we need to see and gauge how that happens - into real projects and such. Otherwise, yes, sure, its great and it raises awareness but there is little in a way of accomplishing a change in any meaningful way in real life and for real people.
One other thing, which we discussed already during Spot the Future, is that Edgeryders has a community of people, some of whom have needs or aspirations that can be met by others in the community. So perhaps connect those two sides in the same community? It will foster collaboration ,amplify relationships and result in some reall change.
So to finalize, its great to learn about inititaitves happenign on the ground and its great to get people engaged online - both are steps # 1 in a sense - but what will REALLY make difference is real help on this initiatives by connecting those inside community to each other, using network of community members and orgs like UNDP to bring in expertise/ etc, drawing some action plans/introducing some metrics for plan performance/assigning responsibles/etc - steps #2, 3, … - or in other words initiating action in real life, and encouraging online engagement, but keeping in mind that online is not an end in itself but means to change in real life.
My two cents. And i still have hope that UNDP will get back to me, and hopefully not too late!
Online => more rigorous
Good to meet you, @2mavin, I don’t think we’ve spoken before. I am jumping in here because I want to comment on your point above:
What is important is that this online engagement, and participation converts - and we need to see and gauge how that happens - into real projects and such. Otherwise, yes, sure, its great and it raises awareness but there is little in a way of accomplishing a change in any meaningful way in real life and for real people.
I agree with everything, except the implication that this applies specifically to online engagement. This is true of all human communication. I am sure you will have made the experience of being in physical meetings where people nodded sagely and agreed something must be done… and then nothing happened. In fact, I argue that online interaction is more, not less, likely to yield concrete outcomes. Why? Because online means writing, and writing is (1) harder than talking and (2) forces a certain rigour into the interaction, as people are aware that what they write stays available as records.
So, please, let’s not try to forward a creeping narrative of “those self-important kids who like to show off on the Internet” vs. “responsible adults in meeting rooms”, ok? We all know that is not a legitimate description of reality. I am sure it’s not what you think, but I am afraid your words can be interpreted that way.
hi Alberto
Hi Alberto, good to meet you too.
Agree that all human communication implies certain things which might or not imply any follow-up action. While i do agree that online engagement’s cornerstone is writing, it is double-edged sword and here is why. If you havent already, I highly recommend a book called Net Delusion by Evgeny Morozov, who argues, among many things, that that very fact of writing (aka participating in social media outlets) makes people feel comfortable with themselves and gives them a certain - and mostly false - delusion of accomplishment. Cases in point, to various degrees, were Iranian Twitter revolution, Haiti events, etc.
So while I am conscious that online engagement implies more involvement in certain ways, I am not sure it is all good. Consider the fact the the pure virtuality of communication online is just that: virtual. Many people cant appreciate enough or consider enough gravity/implicatins of online relationships in comparison to real-life relationships (hence terms such as ‘Facebook friends’ etc). And secondly, with prevalence and ubiquity of Facebooks, Twitters, etc, online engagement is much more part of current generation’s daily routine, and requires but little effort. Testimony to this is the amount of noise/useless info posted on countless sites including the same Facebook by all kinds of people.
Moreover, by my own experience, lots of face-to-face meetings and participation in conferences/seminars, is a way better way to get things going, especially in the developing world, where people appreciate much the human factor.
Just to be clear, I am not trying to trash the idea of online engagement. I do think its vital and I do believe social media has way more power and potential for impact than any regular media. My main argument is that many people get carried away by social media and think of it as means in itself. Social media is just media (but a fast and omniconnected one, for that matter), an end to something else, and this message must be clear.
Am not a social media skeptic (i actully train startups to use social media for their own businesses), but have just seen - among others, on TakingITGlobal, the biggest youth portal on Internet - my fare share of online blah-blah-blah without much real action. And here on Edgeryders I would hope to see much discussion with proportional amount of action!
Apologies if my message might have gotten wrongly interpreted.
different perception of writing and talking
hey @2mavin and @Alberto … just saw this discussion and wanted to jump in
first of all just ensuring that we r not talking about “those self-important kids who like to show off on the Internet” vs. “responsible adults in meeting rooms” as we r already talking online
what I wanted to add that -may be @2mavin mentioned it in a way- in the hot countries usually discussion and talking is more common than reading and writing … as people spend more time outdoors , and cold countries is vice versa …
so I totally agree that there is no clear boundaries between real and digital or virtual they r all “real human interactions”, but also nowadays in the online world there is writing and video so it is not becoming the case of online includes writing only - ofcourse includes more writing -
and for the "facebook friends " or digital friends @2marvin i c what u mean with "online relationships " and “real-life relationships” - I may disagree on the term real -life may be call them "physical or face to face don’t know but online is also real life - but both kinds of relationships have their own characteristics.
just wanted to share my unclear thoughts with u guys !
Need to think about this
@Hazem, I am from Italy – not exactly a northern country. But you may be right about certain rituals that are culture-specific and difficult to move over to written interaction.
I have not read that particular Mozorov, though I have read other things by him and know a bit about his work. Writing gives a sense of false accomplishment? Could be. Maybe you see your own writing on the screen and something in you is nudged into believing this must be true. But writing has two advantages that, in my experience, compensate for any such disadvantage, with room to spare.
@Hazem, i didnt mean it south vs north or culture wise! but ok i got the point you are making, which is that in diff cultures things might be interepreted differently!
1) yes, written word leaves a record, and yes someone can read it in the future and see all the nice or not so nice things we write. Your argument however that people think rationally or even realise that all they write might be accountable in future and might be detrimental to their own selves is faulty. Few examples? In Israel, IDF soldiers posting on Facebook and being put into prison recently. In Nigeria (if i recall the country), journalists expressing their anger on their blogs and twitter against the government and being jailed subsequently. Why is YouTube banned in Turkey? Not because people are careful and considerate in their posts. No, quite the opposite. Many other examples.
These people, of all, know much better possible consequences of their action, and EVEN they dont get rational or planning as you argue. What do you expect of the 18-25yrs old demography of kids form all over the world? Facebooks, Twitters, and other such outlets are FLOODING with useless, ignorant, stupid, racist and other stuff… All written, all preserved. Humans arent rational and they wont get unless one puts them into a hard position.
2) Writing on social media is NOT difficult. Indeed, it’s the easy thing for average 18-25yrs olds in most of developed countries, and even EASIER for the same demographic in developing countries. Hell, even Burma is now getting all the hubbub of social media… People post useless crap in a way they would have never dared to express themselves in face-to-face. Why? Mostly because the “virtuality” of the online makes them feel more secure and safe from potential consequences. Virtuality is the buffer, and they only feel how bad/good/etc is what they say when they can some reaction.
Again, from what you say, it seems you are the kind of considerate and careful social media user, and it is great! But you are an exception, not a rule.
Coming of Age in Cyberspace
Recommended reading:
The Epic of Gilgamesh
Average => meaningless
You know how in most complex systems the average has no meaning, and there is no such thing as a representative agent? Something like Edgeryders is not built on the idea that the average person wants to engage on debates like this one. It is built on the idea that there are enough people around that use social media in a considerate and careful way for these debates to happen. What matters is not the percentage of “good” writers, but their overall number. Guess what: we are having these debates! It must be working.
And the point is?
@2mavin if you are saying the Internet is full of junk, I knew that (and guess what: so is offline interaction. Just go to a football match to get racist nonsense, violent language, sexism, commonplace and tribalism. I am afraid this is a fundamental part of being human).
If you are saying that therefore large scale constructive collaboration is impossible, you are disproved by Wikipedia, GalaxyZoo, Twitter coordination of mass demonstrations etc. etc.
You must be saying something else. But for the life of me I don’t get what.
yallabeeeena
Gazbee,
so looking forward to seeing you there
I’ll be with you for the sessions on next steps in Egypt.
Will send something on my own work soonish. It will be about the driving and environment initiatives, education (incl mini-medina, yes) and coworking/ hack spaces.
Hugs,
Uli
Great opportunity to meet again with all edgeryders!
Hi Noemi and all,
It’s also great opportunity to present futurespotters our new project - SWAP shop in Armenia, so it will be great to have a possibility to have a session on this.
I’m just interested is it late to have a session and be considered for one of the paid-travel tickets?
p.s. sorry for not being so much active during this days, I had exams.