How The Reef might work in Brussels

Disclaimer: I am just playing here. I am not committing to anything, and I have not even touched base with the Edgeryders board. This is just me thinking out loud.

Our friends at fo.am heard we had started considering a permanent space and got in touch. They will soon be leaving theirs, do we want to take it over? I went over for tea and had Nik and Maja give me another tour of the studio. I had seen it before, but it’s different looking at it when you are considering moving in.

  • It's in Brussels, right on the canal (map). It's a 15 mins walk, or one metro stop, away from Grand Place, perhaps 7 mins to Place Sainte-Catherine. Tram 51  takes you to Gare du Midi, the city's main transport hub, in 5 stops.  It is also on the wrong side of the canal – the Molenbeek side, not the city centre side. It does not have direct access from the street: you need to enter a courtyard and go up to the fourth floor.
  • It's big – about 600 square meters.
  • It's visually striking. It used to be a mill, and it shows: large undivided spaces, some mezzanines... some photos are here
  • Nik and Maja claim that the landlord is cool with rearranging the space. At the moment, it has three bedrooms, two bathrooms + two toilets, one kitchen/dining/living area. Most space is used for: a library, "playground", meeting room, office, tool workshop... 
  • Rental is 3,000 EUR per month.

So, what could it become? I thought I would do an exercise to help me get my head around this Reef conundrum. It is based in part on my own co-living experience, now in its fifth year.

A living space

In my mind, there is no way The Reef is going to be sustainable if it is not a home. We can work from almost anywhere, but we have to have somewhere to live. For most of us, the rent or mortgage is far and away our biggest expense. If some of us live in The Reef, we can make a big contribution to its sustainability. In return, we get a bigger, more beutiful and more lively home than most people live in.

This means The Reef must have, in my opinion, at least four bedrooms, preferably with bathrooms en suite. Five or six would be better. Bedrooms can’t be too small: permanent residents need a place to retreat to when the common area gets too hectic.

On the other hand, the kitchen/dining/living should be unique. This nudges permanent and temporary residents to meet and mix.

Residents would be: permanent; temporary, guests of Edgeryders; temporary, with Airbnb.

One or two rooms for guests would allow Edgeryders to be attractive to temporary collaborators. People could come and work with us on a project (or just visit), and they would have a place to stay. We could have “hacker residencies”, etc.

A working space

In an ideal scenario, the working area  of The Reef should be three things.

  1. Edgeryders' office. Easy.
  2. A co-working space. 
  3. A space for events.

2 comes almost for free. We have no secrets, and in fact we go out of our way to increase our contact surface with the rest of the world. It just makes sense to open our office and invite people in. On top of sharing the expenses, we could explore opportunities to work together.

3 also makes sense. Organizing events (most of them small, < 50 participants) is part of our work. Again, given the right conditions we could share the events space, renting it out to others.

Back-of-the-envelope sustainability

Nadia ran some numbers and came up with three scenarios for The Reef: small (10 residents or fewer), medium (30-50), large (200). Let’s think about a small scenario for now. I am basing the following on fo.am, or a space like it. I assume a fourth and fifth bedrooms are possible.

At the moment, we live in a 200 square meter space. It has four bedrooms, one living/dining, one office (two/three people capacity), two full bathrooms, two toilets.  It costs about 2,200/2,300 EUR a month, divided among three families. The fourth room is used for visiting friends and family. We occasionally host on Airbnb, but not much – we are not in the centre.

The Reef  would have two sources of revenue. Let’s call them “internal” and “external”. Internal sources draw money from Edgeryders and the people in the core Edgeryders team. External sources draw money from selling services that at the moment we do not sell.

Internal sources:

  1. Nadia and I could contribute to The Reef with about 1,000 EUR per month. We would have to be allowed to take up residency there, though. 
  2. Another 1,000 (conservative) could come from renting out two more rooms to permanent residents. This could mean two singles, two couples, or one/one. 
  3. Another 1,000 could come from Edgeryders itself. This would pay for the office.
  4. This scheme allows Edgeryders to pay for the space, and give people in the team living space as a benefit. For example: it would pay me 12,000 EUR a year less, but it would save me 12,000 EUR a year in rental costs. This has a significant tax advantage, because I have to pay my rent with my after-tax money. This would save at least 2,000 a year, depending on how much money I am making on that particular year.

External sources:

  1. Co-working space. There are plenty of co-working spaces everywhere. This one would be different: it centers on Edgeryders, a company where everyone is encouraged to hire themselves. This would be small money. Let's say five desks, 500 EUR a month total.
  2. Airbnb. Where we are now, this is not much, perhaps 1-1,500 a year. But close to the centre, we could get more traction. Also, we could target the people coming to town for business dealings with the European institutions. It could be attractive for them to have access to an office, meeting facilities, and the metro to Schumann. This would also bring more relationships to the company. Let's say 8 days a month, 60 EUR per day, about 500 EUR
  3. Event space. ViaVia, a café in Sainte-Catherine, has a meeting room upstairs, and it is always booked. Again, European institutions magic. No idea here... let's say another 500. 

2 and 3 only work in Brussels.

Conclusion: this space would make about 4,500 a month. This includes Edgeryders paying rent to itself for the office. A space that cost 3,000 would be quite sustainable, even if we hire (as we should) a part-time office manager (1,000 per month?). On top of that, we would get tax advantages, higher productivity from working together and more relationships with more people.

As always, feel free to poke holes in all this. Does it make any kind of sense? Can you translate the thinking to other spaces and other cities?

Ping: @Nadia   | @Noemi | @Matthias | @johncoate | @ireinga | @Alex_Levene

4 Likes

Seems viable. Maybe best managed by a (paid) space organizer?

As a cautious estimate of the economics of this kind of space, I think Alberto’s numbers are realistic. So the risk for Edgeryders as a company is small enough, and it allows to organize things differently in practice to utilize the space to full potential both economically and as a “Reef Space”.

For example, the use as event space, co-working space and “AirBnB guesthouse” could be managed in a way that is both fluid (on-demand use of multi-purpose spaces) and efficient. For efficieny, an internal web-connected booking system comes to mind, and a person who would both be Edgeryders’ office manager and “live-in space manager”, managing both marketing and bookings for the space, preparation of the space for events, guests etc., and maintenance and repair tasks. In return, they get free accommodation in the space, and free use of spaces that are not booked for other purposes. With the right incentives and the right person in charge, that could perhaps double the income from coworking space, event space and AirBnB bookings?

What I don’t really like, but that is a personal preference you all know, is that it’s a very urban, central, classy space, and thus also very costly (viable, but costly). It will not be accessible for events etc. to people on shoestring budgets. What about that Brussel space @Nadia got access to for free lately, or something like it?

Paid space manager + 1

Yes, that was the idea, Matt. Again, as you say, we need an office manager anyway as business grows. Paying some extra and buying some more time from the right person gets us all of the space goodies.

Well, we would anyway want to create a channel where people with no money could request the space. We’d still ask for payment, but it could be in kind, depending on what the person can or wants to do (back to the Makerfox). Of course these are all experiments.

And I am not budgeting (yet) for any changes we’d have to make to the space. This opens another chapter, that of capital expenditures. The more you invest, the longer you are tied into the space. If you want to give things a try, rental is quite good in that you can just wrap up and go if it does not work.

1 Like

More info on a hypothetical Brussels Reef

Turns out that the Brussels regional authority is promoting aggressively the Canal area. They are now offering a 30% discount to people of middle income buying new apartments in the area: http://citydev.brussels/logements/renurb.asp

There is also a business side of that: citydev.brussels, claiming they can help companies to set up shop in town. They have both greenfield sites (not for us, obviously) but also 75K square meters of build space: http://citydev.brussels/immobilier/expeco.asp

2 Likes

Makes sense to me

I’ve been lurking on this all Christmas thinking about it.

It seems a very sensible option, especially in the short-medium term. I expect that other parts of the Reef will bring with them different challenges (construction, location, equipment) especially to create the medium and larger iterations. A small scale version in a city that is already known to a lot of partners could be a solid start. The big ‘new’ area for development would be the building/space manager, developing the links with organisations and individuals to sell work space, live/work space and event spaces. That outreach and expansion would probably have benefit if it happened before, or at the same time as, other reefs are being built.

The space manager is (i suppose) an extension of the Community manager position, making people welcome in a real world space.

I agree in part with some of @Matthias concerns about the city centre location, but not the point about accessibility for people on shoestring budgets. Being in a city makes it easy to organise and use car sharing services, buses, trains or low cost airlines. It also makes the Reef more accessible to non-European partners who may want to visit due to it’s proximity to International airports. Certainly more accessible than a rural location. My view would be city first, rural second (but very soon after)

Whatever happens i’m interested. I already mentioned that i’m looking at Brussels as a ‘get out of UK’ destination, so i might be biased towards it already.

2 Likes

Space manager job description, rough draft:

  • Office manager. From buying the paper for the printer to, hopefully, helping out with some admin stuff. For sure we need a solid calendar to be managed at this level, because the space would be used by all Edgeryders projects and by other people. So this is a good place to plug the calendar. The calendar does double duty as it gives us a high-level view of the "pulse" of both the company and the space: what people are working on, who is working on what etc.
  • Coworking host. Welcoming people, giving newcomers tours, making sure it buzzes along.
  • Airbnb host. Welcoming people, giving out, collecting back keys, checking on rooms. 

Alex, can we sign you up? We’ll be actively looking out for a space very soon. The more people we know are committed to moving in, the more uncertainty is reduced. Also, we want to make sure we have enough rooms. The minimum number is permanently resident households + at least 1, ideally 2 or (given an attractive location, central etc.) 3.

1 Like

Sorry for the quiet, i’m playing catch up in the UK.

Yes, you can sign me up. I’ve done a few jobs that involved running spaces similar to this (although without the living section) so i’d put my name forward to do that role if possible. I do agree with the point below about it being a 0.5 job, rather than a full time position though.

Wow how could I miss this! Make lots of sense to me! Great idea, a hub has always been needed.

Can you sign me up too please? Ready to move in any time

Sure?

@Iriedawta , sure about that? Things are more complicated for you, because you’d need a heavy-duty visa to move to Belgium. Plus, life is more expensive here than in Yerevan…

1 Like

Umm, true about the visa issue, otherwise the work I’m doing can be done from anywhere and if it’s a part time gig I will manage…If the Reef is child friendly of course :slight_smile:

1 Like

Sounds great to me as a trial

I think this goes great as a test case. There is nothing much I can disprove of, I mean if indeed the calculations are right. Yes, some other places oputside large urban areas could be cheaper, but come with greater efforts to generate income and here I agree with Alex above - may be less connected and more expensive for people to just show up/ rent.

More importantly, there is little risk I can think of.  For Edgeryders (the organisation) 2000 eur a month covering the space and a hire is reasonable if we consider this a test, even if the space takes a few months to start generating some income through rentals. How about extra living costs (Internet, electricity, phone, etc) and maintenance which are not included in the rent? Would they amount to a few hundred euros?

From looking on fo.am website announcepment, this offer will expire soon… I dont know where you are with the action these days, let me know if I can help. I would for sure be interested in joining on a regular basis - i.e. temporary resident.

Also, I’m taking the liberty to ping @asimong in light of his co-housing experience and @Hannes . Guys, birds eye feedback should do at this point…

Heating, electricity and connectivity.

I think the heating, electricity, connectivity and cleaning costs are the most significant ones.

They could perhaps be covered by baseline membership fees: Remote, Residency and Workplace.

The respective baseline fees for the different kinds of membership could cover different proportions of the costs (because people use different amounts of resources based on how they use the space)…?

About 200 a month (utilities, not cleaning)

Utility costs are not large in Belgium. Here we pay about 90 EUR a month for electricity + gas (5 permanent residents + occaasional guests, 200 square meters). Phone + Internet is about 30/40 EUR per month. Water is negligible.

Cleaning is also fairly cheap per hour, because of Belgium’s great titre service system. In our current space, we do most chores ourselves, and only have a professional cleaner once a week to do a deep scrub. Of course, for a space open to the public, the number of monthly hours we’d have to purchase would go up significantly.

Heating

This is going to be a significant cost in an open space. So we need to find out from Fo.am how much that amounts to per month and then calculate a scenario with 100% increase to be on the safe side.

Space manager; bunk room?

Thanks for the ping, @Noemi Note that my co-housing experience is quite different from this. But I like the idea. One cautionary note would be that personally I would think it safer to have the space managed part time (0.5?) in return for a free rental. That way, there would be no employer obligations to worry about. Maybe to allow for flexibility, give the manager a cut on booking revenue, rather than a salary.

To me, the less money changing hands, the better.

Where I live we don’t have any cheap accommodation, and that’s a drawback for events. Yes, rooms for residents, but for very short-term visitors, how about a bunk room with say 6 beds?

3 Likes

A flexible arrangement makes sense to me

I like the idea of 6 bunk beds. The easier it makes it for groups and organisations to organise events, the better. 6 beds would probably be enough for the organisers to cut their own cost of travel. Also, for an increasing number of organisations, the only costs covered for participation in events is accomodations… so all other costs, including those of organising the events, could be folded into the accommodation rentals. Am trying to figure this out in the form of possible membership and pricing models here.

… with measure, to respect the space of permanent residents

In fact, FOAM already has the bunk beds (not sure if they are four or six though).

The precise arrangement depends on the precise layout of the space. In general, The Reef needs to prioritize the well-being of permanent residents, who are its engine and soul. So, overcrowding of the space needs to be meted out with care, in order for them (us, since I plan to be a permanent resident myself) to feel comfortable in their home. It’s still possible though: we all have had friends and family camped out on couches and inflatable mattresses.

Fine line

I also think bunk beds are a good idea, but those work for short, AirBnb style rentals more than medium term.

Ideally you’d have a range of options but that also means more overhead. Next thing you know we’ll be running a very crowded hotel, which is not the idea. It will be interesting to see how we fine tune this, because it’s hard to say now what would work best for most people joining. If there’s enough room for modularity and repurposing of spaces than that’s a major win imho.

short term, yes

Sure, short term for bunk accommodation – I was thinking of a two-day meeting or conference – a few days at maximum.

1 Like

On the other hand…

…, @asimong , some money changing hands is a stronger guarantee that the space manager will stay aligned with us. At least in the short run. Remember, there is no book to do this by yet.

The cultural risk for The Reef is mission drift. If people interpret it as a squat, hic manebimus optime, we are going to waste time and energy in stupid low-level conflict. The space needs to be clearly seen as a mean to an end. The end is doing effective, relevant, fun stuff in a financially sustainable way (“the work”).