Le programme 2

Hi @reeflings !

Here comes the long awaited Le Programme 2.0! It is aimed at getting a clear view of how many people want how many apartments, and what sizes those apartments will have.

We kindly ask you to have a look at the survey (The Reef - personal apartment wishes) and fill it in by 17/12.

To help you with that, refer to this post for calculating the size and price of your appartments. Just to let you know, I’ve just updated the post and the calculator.

All of the information you need to fill out this survey is written in the survey itself. It takes about 15 minutes to fill it out.

Almost undoubtedly, filling in this survey will raise questions for some of you. If you feel like you can’t fill out the full survey, please fill out as much as you can right now, and come back to the survey later (you can keep on editing your survey answers after you’ve sent the survey in).

If anything is unclear or if you catch a problem, do not hesitate to reach out/ask questions in this thread.

A kind reminder that @reef-full are also concerned by this, in that they should make sure they have had a look at the new calculations of apartment sizes and prices, which changed quite dramatically with the last info we got from the architects. If you have to change your wishes based on this, please just tell team building or fill in the whole questionnaire again if too many things have to be changed. If you don’t need to change your choices, please like this post so that we know you are aware of the new info and your answers are still valid…

Thanks to all!


Hi again @reeflings!

Just two little update about this:

  • I’ve underlined the fact that the survey asks for gross square meters and not net square meters (contrarily to the numbers in the architects’ estimation…)
  • I’ve added an option for the number of rooms (0 bedroom ie studio) which didn"t exist previously

You can still edit your survey if you realise you have to change something!


Hi there!

I see that quite a few people haven"t filled this in.
@alberto, @Dave_behave, @ugne and @manuelpueyo you haven’t hearted or updated your results.
And @Angelika, @bram and @Evi, @Janet and @Victor, @Justin_N and @Susanne_P, @Lea and @RyanB, @SimonDelch, can you fill it in?
@Sophie_B, @mieke, @Lee, @KoenVanMeel and @els : if I haven’t made a mistake, you have indicated a square footage that is slightly lower than what the architects have recommanded; it’s not a massive difference (1-4m2), and it doesn’t matter to much for the program for now, but I thought I’d flag it to make sure you are aware of it

Do not hesitate to reach out if you have questions, ideally on signal so that I can answer quickly.

We would be grateful if this could be done quickly so that we could move on. So please do so before wednesday 20th. Thanks!


Hello Sarah,
Very sorry, for some reason in my mind that was just for full members and I’m only an associate member at the moment. So thanks for the reminder!
I filled it in now.
Happy Holidays :slight_smile:


Hello @Sarah,

We filled it in, and sorry for the delay!

Evi and Bram

1 Like

Hi @Sarah,

Sorry for the delays! @Susanne_P and I just filled in the survey. Thanks for all the work.

All best,

Justin & Susanne

1 Like

The results from le programme 2 are available through this document. I made the analysis before Els became a full member, and the data for Caro and Quentin are also missing, but it’s a first step. I’ll post something again when we have the results from Caro and Quentin.

@reef-building : can you review the document and let me know your remarks? Lie, I arranged the numbers of appartment for each category into a table, hope it’s clearer that way.
@reef-recruitment : Lie will probably talk about it at your next meeting, but that way you can have a look beforehand
@Caro @Quentin : when you are ready, can you fill in the survey and ping me? Thanks!


We seem to be getting closer to Le Programme 3.
I just wanted to make a comment on an answer from our architects (in this post) about this:

I feel that a first step for this would be to apply the price fork to the current plans, meaning establishing which buildings and levels will be the most expensive and which will be the least. Because in order to be able to say that we want to be in an appartment in a given building at a given level, we need to have an idea of the potential price and whether we can afford it, and this is quite complex with Jet-14 because we don’t just have one building.
So I think we should ask them if they would be able to give us that repartition already, like telling us for each floor of each building whether it would be more or less -10%, -5%, 0, +5% or +10% for instance.
@reef-building what do you think?


i don’t know. I find it’s a very complex interaction between us and the architects. I would see with them what works best. Do we know how it worked in brutopia, l’échappée?

somehow i think we should communicate our budget, number of rooms, m2 in total,… and 1 (or 2) things that are really important: e.g. as much sun as possible, or a quiet apartment, or private garden wanted,… and i think we all will get what we (more or less) want within our budget. Remember we’re only half of the group, so we still have some choice i suppose

If i remember well, there is more than 1 criteria to determine the final price of an apartment, not only the floor/building. So for me, they almost would have to divide the total surface in apartments and then see per apartment what the price should be, but this gives them less freedom to do the matching. (so i stick with what i said in the beginning: we should ask how they see this working)


I can see both points, and I would propose we wait for their reply to the set of questions that we just sent (about le programme 3), and then follow up with further questions.

On another note, @Sarah could you please delete the personal data in the current Excel on le programme, of all the people who are no longer in The Reef? It has a lot of data, and I think they deserve some privacy about this.


See point 4 of this proposal from last year, where Alberto explained it for Brutopia. Login – Nextcloud


I would give them the result of le Programme 3, and let them make a 1st proposal like they suggested. From there they should be able to say what costs how much.

In a utopic world we all think “great ! I can see my dream apartment already !”. Most probably we will all have things we want to adjustand some of us might flag “too expensive”

  • to determine how much each adjustment is important for each household
  • to define with them au cas par cas what can be adjusted and how

From architects colleagues I know who worked on cohousings, I know they had facilitate many workshops with the future inhabitants to define each apart step by step (hence most archis hate to do cohousings haha)
Do François and Serge work similarly ?


The way I understood it they said that they will indeed be attending a couple of our meetings.