Or Italy
What has this to do with the government?
It is not clear why you would approach the government with this project proposal. Are you looking for funding, and if so, what order of magnitude? Or are you looking for a change in the law, and if so, shouldn’t you be a bit more specific? Or are you looking for legitimacy, and if so, shouldn’t it come from the right kind of Greek institution? Are you looking to support the government, and if so, have you enquired what the government intends for economic development? Or are you just looking to get your software deployed, having invested so long in it, which is what it looks like.
What you describe above looks like what I’ve heard called multilateral circular barter - Setting up a whole loop of transactions before executing them. It could be better than normal credit clearing because much less credit is needed. But is there a single example of such a system working in practice? And what scale of economy would be needed to try it? Is this idea (let alone the software) ready to try on a national level?
I considered volunteering myself to support the Greek government implement alternative means of liquidity. And if I did I would
- align it with stated Syriza policy
- clear my mind of ready made technical solutions
- invite partnerships with other projects, such as Community Forge, D-CENT, Sardex, NEF/CCIA and especially greek orgs like the European Sustainability Academy and orgs from the Commons Fest
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Necessity is the mother of adoption
Hello @matslats. @Matthias might have a different angle on it, but the way I see it the Makerfox is a solution in search of a test bed. So this is not so much about solving Greece’s problems per se; it is more about deploying a specific solution, which (Matt thinks) happens to be a good match for Greece’s problems. Having big, urgent problems makes a test bed attractive, because the incentive is there to do something new about them.
I myself suggested a much scaled-down local implementation a couple of comments above this one.
This is turning into a really good discussion! 
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Well, it is part of solving Greece’s problems
Indeed I did not try to design a holistic solution for Greece’s problems, which are complex. Though I do care about Greece’s problems, and only did this writeup because I do. My approach to solving complex problems is an agent-based model though. Each idea has its agents, and they interact on a theory and practical level, and if this is done in a civil and honest manner, a nice solution emerges.
In this case, I’m the agent of network barter. My task is finding out what it can contribute to help. And to interact with other agents (incl. you and everyone else here) to let the solution take shape.
We have talked a bit before, right? So, hello again, welcome to Edgeryders, and thank you for contributing! I value your opinion a lot, esp. because you have a different take on the alternative economic exchange topic.
> Are you looking to support the government, and if so, have you enquired what the government intends for economic development?
This one. Or rather, to support the Greek people, but in this case the difference is (hopefully) not big. I don’t care about funding here – if this works, it will be an honor to support the Greek people. And if I believe this idea can work to help them, I have kind of a moral obligation to tell them, no?
So, it’s “just” an experimental, radical proposal to contribute to the discussion, like Yanis Varoufakis’ just-as-radical FT-Coin proposal. It’s not “ready” to try on national level in a conventional sense of “ready”. What does “ready” mean under crisis conditions though? Purely from an innovation perspective, WW2 was a fruitful time because lots of outlandish ideas were tried and some turned out to work well.
You’re right to relate the proposal to multilateral circular barter: it’s a generalization of that, working with networks rather than circles / loops, which improves market clearing. It can work without credit, though adding a bit of either P2P credit or currency / currencies helps quite a bit.
When using a barter / currency hybrid system, it can connect multiple complementary currencies / community currencies into an intra-community trading system. Currencies are simply traded as commodities, like other products. One would simply order only the currencies one trusts in, from everyone who offers them and whom one trusts to deliver. This respects the requirement of local trust within each currency community, while still allowing to trade with people from other communities using inter-community network barter. For Greece, it could look like an ecosystem of 100 or more local currencies (most of which probably exist already), connected with a credit-free barter system between them. Sounds like yet another radical proposal: a way to make complementary currencies applicable for nation-wide trading. It seems to solve the challenges that a single national complementary would otherwise have (as stated by Yanis Varoufakis … ah, here, this part of his “Erratic Marxist” speech). What do you think, is there a need for a community currency clearinghouse like this? And, could it work?
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Hi Matthias yes we’ve talked before.
I think the notion of multilateral circular barter is very interesting and instructive because it attempts to facilitate exchange without money AND without credit, and therefore it helps us to understand the role and function of money and credit in an exchange system.
but I’m concerned that this mechanism might not work in practice, or might need a very large critical mass before it starts to find loops, and thus it might only work as a top-down solution. This is why I’m not paying much attention.
On the subject of joining all the systems together, that is increasingly my focus, and the subject of a stonking CAPS proposal! But again, this would use the mutual credit approach along with building systems of participative governance.
If you want to do work that will have definite impact on existing local currency systems, your help would be appreciated. Are you going to CommonsFest in Athens mid-may?
Reply from Michel Bauwens
I received this reply from Michel Bauwens (on the networkedlabour mailing list) :
“This seems to me something to be experimented first at the B2B level … perhaps best via the business people who are active in the ANEL alliance partner, or any small business organisation …”
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Target the youth!
For nearly a year now, with @srifer, i am working on a concept to involve the urban youth in tree planting activities and rewarding them through an unique points based rewards system. The idea is that these points can be used at local shops in exchange for specific goods! Thus with a single set-up we achieve two results - (1) a parallel net based economy and (2) better urban environment and environmental awareness.
By involving the youth, through their formative years, we inculcate in them a sense of responsibility towards the environment, in the process, making them responsible adults.
Putting some extra money (through online points and rewards) in the pocket of the youth is quite rewarding(for them) and will boost the local market too!
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Regulation
I’m workin up proposals for local govt in England to explore the scope something ‘kindred’ - but, I think they could well fall foul of regulations, as per those developed/overseen by the likes of the European Banking Authority. Do you have a work around? Also, it might be worthwhile noting the work underway around @banknotey in the Isle of Man + the statement on the treatment of assets and income tax and VAT published by @jonesiom, which further complicates the regulation of ‘transactions’ - at least, where there is a discernible ‘currency’ exchange implied…so, that may be where you ‘escape’ the regulations?! Any thoughts/suggestions on this topic would be very welcome…
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