My reading is he mentioned it in one of his earlier answers, see Q&A Nr. 4, “lorsqu’ils cèdent entre ceux qui étaient propriétaires lors de l’achat, c’est du 1%”.
Aha, so this would mean the sale of the lots to buyers of the indivisé. Got it.
Hello @reef-finance,
Would you have an update from the notary, or at least by when we’ll be receiving the documents?
Hello,
I was on the phone with the notary.
Between our follow-up email earlier today and my phone call, he had already sent the templates for the offer (offre indivisible) for the seller and the contract for members of the Reef at the reef email.
These templates are not definitive, his assistants are working on adapting them to our case, but we should fill in the factual information and send it to him before our meeting on Friday.
- very important to make a clear distinction between the persons that will buy the land from the seller and those that will buy it afterwards.
- price of land
- name of the buyers
- names of other people of Reef who commit to buying later on their share of land
- copy of IDs of all parties need to be provided.
Meeting to discuss the final draft of the offer and the convention on Friday 31 June 17h and questions we might have left (videoconferencing)
Other snippets of information that can help to reconstitute the timeline:
- Notary urges us to remain prudent towards the seller, as he feels we have still not sufficient information (eg. he has not yet received any answer from the legal counsel who handles the Matexi files); he will adapt the text of the offer with the appropriate safeguards. His words “vous ne devez pas lachez du fond au bénéfice du vendeur tant que vous n’avez pas de garanties rélles”.
- the 25.000€ guarantee must transit his study’s bank account, as proof of absence of mortgage for the price of the land (or the share thereof that we would buy without mortgage). We can make the transfer whenever we have the money and provide the bankslip to the seller as proof.
- we need to have as much time as possible between the time of the offer and the signing of the deed of sale from the seller to the Reef to allow the architects to finalise the plans and be able to ask the permit dans la foullée (the 2years countdown to be able to reclaim 36% of the registration rights start).
- the sale of the land from first buyers to other members of the reef would happen after the building permit would be obtained (we would then write the “acte de base” and “reglement d’ordre interieur” of the condominium).
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IMPORTANT
Hi @els , @mieke , @Caro , @Quentin
Following above, can you please send me asap the copy of your IDs on utornau@yahoo.com to be passed on to the notary.
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@ugne, @LuciaM could you help me disentangle a point here. The compromis formula normally is a promise from the buyer to buy, and from the seller to sell, at a set price and date.
The promise is underpinned by a deposit, paid in advance by the buyer.
- If the buyer changes his mind and no longer wants to go through with the purchase, the buyer loses the deposit. The seller keeps both the good and the deposit.
- If the seller changes his mind and no longer wants to go through with the sale, the seller can keep the good, but has to pay the buyer twice the amount of the deposit.
Is this the case here? I ask because I do not understand the legal meaning of the term offre irrevocable.
The term “irrevocable” means exactly that we do not change our mind.
There is therefore no mention of what happens if either of the parties change our mind, nor of a penalty.
As far as the buyers are concerned, the only way to get out of the transaction without penalty would be if any of the “clauses suspensives” (conditions to be met before we can conclude the transaction) are not fulfilled.
But then why do a compromis at all? It seems like an overlapping of two mutually incompatible legal instruments (compromis and offre irrevocable, each with its own purposes and set of rules).
I am by no means a legal scholar 
, but for me each document has its own purpose.
When you do an offer there is little time for the notary to make all the inquiries needed to make sure everything is ok with the sale. Moreover it might not be cost efficient, as you don’t know yet if the owner will agree with your offer. The offer also serves as a document when you go to the bank to get the loan.
When you get to the level of the compromis you will have already secured the finances, so this provision will no longer be mentioned it the compromis.
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Hmm… I think what it really means is that we do not change our minds without consequences.
The modèle de compromis is ambiguous, see art. 22.1:
22.1 Exécution forcée ou résolution
Si un des signataires ne respecte pas ses obligations, l’autre signataire doit lui envoyer une mise en demeure, dans laquelle il peut demander d’exécuter son obligation. Si le signataire qui a reçu la mise en demeure n’exécute pas ses obligations dans les 15 jours, l’autre signataire peut alors :
- soit poursuivre l’exécution forcée (c’est-à-dire s’adresser au juge afin qu’il condamne le signataire en défaut à respecter ses obligations) ;
- soit considérer que la vente a pris fin (résolution de la vente) sans intervention préalable du juge. Le signataire qui opte pour cette sanction doit en informer par écrit l’autre signataire en indiquant expressément qu’il a fait appel à cette possibilité et les obligations qui n’ont pas été respectées.
Le signataire qui n’a pas exécuté ses obligations doit payer à l’autre signataire :
- une indemnité fixée forfaitairement à #10% du prix de vente et
- les éventuels droits d’enregistrement ou autres frais liés à la vente.
Attention : la résolution de la vente a des conséquences fiscales. Les signataires peuvent éviter ces conséquences s’ils mettent fin à la vente de commun accord en raison du non-respect par l’un d’eux, de ses obligations. Dans ce cas, les signataires doivent présenter à l’enregistrement cet accord qui sera enregistré au droit fixe de 2 x 10 EUR.
Hi @LuciaM,
Could you tell me once more whether having the naked property of another unit would affect my abattement for my first unit?
Sorry to be so slow to process all this!
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Another naked property should not impact you right to abatement, as you are not full owner. I can check again with the notary.
Ha. I’m happy it’s not that silly a question 
.
What personally drives me mad is that in this legalese lingo (including when I read in Dutch) in the first sentence they would say something that seems clear, and then three sentences down I no longer understand a thing.
Here’s an example, taken from Droits d'enregistrement: acquisition de votre résidence principale | Pareto
First sentence:
“dans les trois Régions, pour bénéficier de cet abattement, l’acquéreur ne peut posséder, à la date de la convention d’acquisition, la totalité en pleine propriété d’un autre immeuble destiné en tout ou en partie à l’habitation”
=> got it, seems clear
Three sentences down: (note that the Dutch and French versions don’t correspond - the Dutch one being even more incomprehensible):
“Le mode d’acquisition de la nue-propriété possédée antérieurement n’étant pas précisé outre mesure, un bien immeuble acquis via un achat scindé, héritage ou une donation préalablement à l’achat d’un premier immeuble ne devrait pas empêcher le bénéfice de l’abattement en droits d’enregistrement. Donc, si l’acquéreur d’une résidence principale ne possède qu’un bien immeuble en nue-propriété, il pourra toujours bénéficier de l’abattement.”
=> question: where does this “préalablement” come from (italics above are mine), and what does it mean? And more importantly, what happens in the concrete case where I would acquire two units at the same time, one in full ownership and another one in naked ownership?
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Hi @reef-finance
Following the memorable signature procedure yesterday, we should get ready to pay the first 25K deposit. I guess i need to go to the notary & ask to provide us with the details where this money should go - the bank account details, correct?
Thanks
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Yes, this is correct.
Another question, we only miss Marcel’s signature on Accord préalable document (signed by us yesterday), but once signed, should i send the last version of it to the notary or only keep it for our records?
I would not send it. Also, I suspect we are going to have to update it soon, which is painless once we figure out how to do digital signing.
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yes, i think i figured that out