Plenary meeting 8 December

Hello @reeflings,

For those who follow the Nextcloud calendar, we have a bit of a scheduling glitch due to the conversion of the Full Members working meetings into plenary meetings.

So the next meeting was planned as a FM working meeting, on 8/12 at 19:30, and it would now become a plenary meeting.

Because I also anticipate that we may benefit from getting some extra time (i.e. a morning and and afternoon), I am launching a poll to see who can be available at what time. Can you please let me know?

  • 10:30 - 13:00
  • 14:00 - 17:00
  • 15:00 - 18:00
  • 19:30 - 22:00
0 voters

Just a small reminder of a note I made some time ago: How we organise polls for important meetings. Key points: please be generous when marking your availabilities + letā€™s not make it a numbers game only (e.g. a morning session may be favourable to accommodate for anti-vampires, even if it means that less people can make it counted by numbers).

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I am going to have to pass, as I will be coming home from Italy.

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Ok dear beautiful @reeflings. Iā€™m a bit torn, because Iā€™m not 100% sure yet we will have enough topics for a morning and an afternoon session, but then I guess itā€™s best to block agendas as soon as possible.

So hereā€™s a proposal, how about we hold a plenary meeting from 10:30 to 13:00, so we get to see the lovely @MariaAM, followed by a long lunch break, and then possibly a second session in the afternoon from 15:00 to 18:00. If there wonā€™t be enough technical topics, then there is also the option to do something extra on group dynamics or something alike. Or maybe even just something playful like the Astronaut Game?

Any objections?

3 Likes

You can also keep only an afternoon session (15.00-18.00). I can also be there until around 17.00 and Richard can replace me later. For the early afternoon we can organise ourselves to be there in shifts :smiling_face:

not 100 procent sure about all of this, but from team building, we might have

  • common spaces discussion (to be confirmed by @ChrisM )
  • discussion on the weighed units which we will hopefully have by then (or is this for team finance to bring?)
  • consenting on proposal and/or common understanding on the choice of going for ā€˜one contract with the group for the finishingā€™ or going for ā€˜individual contracts with several contractorsā€™

Hi @MariaAM, if you can also be there in the afternoon, the picture changes, because in the morning @Hannah canā€™t be there.

Iā€™m almost sure weā€™ll need two sessions though, so just going with the afternoon one does not offer enough certainty at this point.

So, then letā€™s make a poll to see which option makes the most people happy / the least people unhappy. Can you please let me know by tomorrow (Friday) by the end of the day?

  • 10:30 - 13:00 + 15:00 - 18:00 => yes, within my range of tolerance
  • 10:30 - 13:00 + 15:00 - 18:00 => not my preference
  • 15:00 - 18:00 + 19:30 - 22:00 => yes, within my range of tolerance
  • 15:00 - 18:00 + 19:30 - 22:00 => not my preference
  • Whichever option gathers the most people is good for me
0 voters
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For me, thereā€™s no reason why we canā€™t make our decision on the common spaces at this plenary, despite the fact that we didnā€™t devote as much time as we thought we would at the last one.

As I said in my post leading up to that plenary (Reef Commons: what if we put all the common spaces in Front - #21 by ChrisM), one option when dealing with counter proposals is to test consent for both as a starting point. The intention for the last plenary was to open with the sticky dot exercise to see which aspects of the decision were most important to everyone, then to make a space for people to say what they thought was in the best interests of the Reef and what their preferences were, and then move to a consent round for both the original proposal and the counter proposal.

As Lie points out in the same thread (Reef Commons: what if we put all the common spaces in Front - #31 by Lee), there is also the option of using a sociocratic selection process. Not only does that allow us to pick up where we left off and still make a decision, it also offers a rather elegant solution to the problem of ā€˜best for the Reefā€™ vs personal preferences (as Lie explains in her post). Finally, it also includes a consent round after the ā€œvotingā€ process.

So hereā€™s how I see the decision process playing out for the common spaces:

  • Discuss results of sticky dot exercise (photo to be added to agenda)
  • Do a selection process between the two proposals
  • Consent to the choice

An important point about giving a proxy if you canā€™t make it. Our governance document states that you can give a proxy if there is a vote. It doesnā€™t mention giving a proxy for consenting or objecting to a proposal, but there is nothing stopping us from doing this. The governance document also states that if a proposal is consented to at a meeting, then each member who is not present has 48 hours to object once the minutes are published. I personally prefer this to proxy consent, based on what the author of Many Voices, One Song has to say, as proposals can change significantly before a consent round, and discussions about them during the early rounds can lead to members changing their minds. However, this is a point that needs to be clarified between Team Governance and Team Facilitation in the near future.

For the common spaces decision, there will be both a type of multi-vote and a consent round. For the first round of the selection process, each household will have 8 dots to put on one proposal or the other, or divide between them. If you cannot be at the meeting, you can give your proxy to someone else to place your 8 dots. However, when it comes to the second round, where those present have the option of moving their dots based on what others have said, the proxy dots will remain where they are. Itā€™s not perfect, but I think itā€™ll do.

Once a decision has been made (i.e. a proposal has been selected), there will be a consent round. In light of the fact that some people think we are currently able to give proxy consent or objections, you are welcome to do so if you will not be present. You would do this if you have an objection to one of the proposals, regardless of the group discussion during the selection process The other option is to raise your objection online in the 48 hours after the minutes of the plenary meeting are posted.

Feedback welcome :slight_smile:
If you are confused by any of the above, including proxies, feel free to reach out to me directlyā€¦

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PS - I realise that the subtleties of working methods and sociocratic process are not everyoneā€™s cup of tea. The reason that I keep devoting long posts to them is because I think that getting this right is strongly correlated to the long-term wellbeing of the community. Itā€™s also clear that weā€™re not always on the same page regarding how we make decisions, and I think that achieving clarity now on what might seem like pedantic points will be important when we have to perhaps make quick and significant decisions later, for example during the construction phaseā€¦ :slight_smile:

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Hello @reeflings,

Just a quick heads up to let you know that the conclusion from the poll seems that the preferred solution is to do a plenary meeting from 15:00 to 18:00, followed by an evening session from 19:30 to 22:00 (which could also be shortened).

I still need to prepare the agenda document, but based on discussions in the Coordination Group last Monday, the list of topics would include the following:

  • Common spaces: consent

  • Options for the finishings: consent

  • Unit valuation method: exploration

  • Governance - how to manage power and responsibility: exploration

A more detailed version will follow in the next coming days, idem for a debrief from the Coordination Group meeting.

As for the venue, if the situation at my place gets solved, it can be at mine, otherwise (or in any case) other proposals are very welcome.

Would someone be willing to volunteer for the organisation of dinner? You can decide itā€™s a potluck (and then make sure that thereā€™s enough food) or you can decide we order in, or anything else you want to propose. Doer decides (but having a volunteering doer would be nice).

5 Likes

@reeflings

For the topic ā€˜options for the finishingsā€™, it will be rather an exploration and creating common understanding than consenting to a proposal.

You find the preparation of this topic in the proposal folder of 2024 of the plenary meetings folder.

1 Like

@reef-full , correction of the above. It will be a proposal after all with the goal of getting a consent on this in the plenary of this Sunday.

The Design Studio at Namahn is available all day. We can rearrange the space as we want.

If we are max 9 it could be at mine but I guess we are more?

Hello @reeflings,

Eventually many topics were not ready for tomorrowā€™s plenary, so the only ones left are the decision on where to put the common living room, and a decision on which contract set-up for the casco and the finishings.

The meeting starts at 15:00 at Joannes and Annā€™s place (thanks for the offer!). As usual letā€™s try to arrive a bit in advance so that we can take a calm start.

As for the process described by Chris above, in post no 7, I want to object to the possibility to objecting by proxy, for the reason invoked some paragraphs above in the same post, referring to Many Voices One Song and the fact that one has to be present to hear all arguments to be able to participate in influencing the decision.

The Governance Document is all in all relatively clear on this. Itā€™s under point 5.1.4. ā€œabsenteesā€. This is the text:

Presence is very important, because we like to hear all voices before taking a decision.

If for some reason it is not possible to attend a plenary meeting, there are two options: either proactively invest in staying involved, or trust the group and you let it go.

Reeflings who choose to stay involved are requested to do the following:

  • Provide your input ahead of the meeting, preferably on the forum.
  • If there is a decision that will be taken by vote, give a proxy to another Full Member (this is important, because we need a 50% quorum to be able to make a decision).
  • If you donā€™t agree with a decision that has been taken, flag this within 48 hours after the minutes are finished.

So for those who canā€™t be present and who want to contribute to the discusssion on the common living room, I would propose to do exactly this:

  • Share your views, preferably in a post (if need be by asking someone to speak for you at the meeting)

  • Give a proxy for your 8 votes to someone

  • Check the minutes, and flag within 48 hours that you donā€™t agree, and that you would like to re-open the issue at the next plenary

In simpler words: this is what Chris proposed above, minus the possibility to bring in an objection via a proxy.