Hello @team-finance,
I don’t know if you are already aware, but this is a good news.
Sorry no English version.
Have fun
Marc
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It seems that there is no abattement possible for sociétés, so abattement simply doesn’t apply to us, no?
These things are not related. We’ll be buying our apartments as individuals, so these rules will apply for us all.
Ah right, because the société buys the land and then sells it to us right?
Another point of questionning (quite crucial for us…):
I noticed that in the architects estimate, the frais d’enregistrement are mentionned only for the land. It seems to me that the frais d’enregistrements only apply to the land, not to the building; for this, the 21% TVA applies.
This article confirms this I think, although I’m not sure how it works when it’s not a sell, but when you construct for yourself instead…
My understanding now is that overall the frais d’enregistrement won"t be more than about 9000 (D23/25 in the estimate), so those who qualify for abattement will get a maximum of 9000euros (not 25 000 as usual…).
Makes sense? Anybody can clarify this??
Either way, it would put my mind at rest to have definitive information on this, so could we ask our notary now whether we will qualify for the abbatement, and if so, how much for. It will give us a better idea of the actual potential cost of our projetcs… Is he getting-in-touchable now @ugne?
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I don’t have the time right now (I’ll be back on Thursday), but I’d like to look into this before we contact the notary (because I think we can figure this out ourselves).
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Yes it can wait a couple of days, no worries.
I would really need to get solid info on this though, because it really makes a big difference to us… But let’s work that out together 
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Hey @Sarah I struggled with the same questions. I contacted Ugne about how to contact the notary for those questions. It is best to go trough Ugne.
@ugne I’ll try to send you my questions this week, it’s so busy for the moment (it always is juste before going on holidays by the way 
)
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Yes, same here, many questions!
@ugne : I feel that it would help if we had a document with all our questions, where we can answer to each other with the things we know already, and where we can see the questions that remain unanswered… What do you think?
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I looked into it and I can see it’s a bit complicated.
As far as I can see these “registration rights” only apply if you sell under the conditions of the “loi Breyne”, which applies to “key-on-the-door” formulas (which is not what we do). For The Reef - again, as far as I can see - the rules for newly built apartments would apply, which means that we would only pay VAT.
The reason why the estimate says “???” in that line, is because we will only know at the very last moment whether we’ll have to pay 6% or 21% (which is what the notary told us). This would also solve the question on whether registration rights would apply to the casco or the finished apartment. That’s a very complicated issue, and so I think the law gets around that by just applying VAT instead of registration rights.
Personally I would prefer to use the notary as a scarce resource, and try to figure things out ourselves in as far as possible. So what I would propose is that Team Finance takes the lead (when they have time) to collect the questions, then do some research (much is available online), and only then we see either with the coach or with the architects whether they can enlighten us on the final details.
Yes, that’s what I had in mind in the above, works for me
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Hi @Lee ; hi @reeflings , don’t you feel that we could have a larger discussion about this with the notary? We can of course send him an email, but i feel it could work so much better if we plan an online meeting with him and in preparation for that, we would launch a doc where everyone could add their questions about the above topic or others. if you agree, let me know and i will try to fix a meeting perhaps mid-August or whenever he is available after his holidays. Any other thoughts/suggestions or objections?
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@ugne, I am not against asking the notary, but I think we should do our homework first.
After having given it some more thought, and having replayed the meetings with the architects and with the notary in my head, I think it’s simpler than we may think.
This is how I think it works:
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For buying a unit in The Reef: we will pay 6 or 21% VAT on the total price (casco + finishings). Which of the two it will be will depend on the commune, and if it’s a 6% commune, on whether the official in the commune agrees that our société simple was not set up to speculate on real estate. This is one of the reasons why we are working with such a big buffer in the estimation of our budgets.
Registration rights are of no matter in this case. They will come into play if somebody sells their unit, and then the buyer will have to pay these rights as set out in the law (12.5% for everything beyond 200.000 euro). -
The reform of the registration rights (as described in post no 1 above) are relevant for Reeflings who already own an apartment in Brussels. What is relevant here is that under the new rules you have up to 3 years to move your “domicile” (instead of 2). So if you would buy something now, you need to have your domicile their for 5 years. If not, you will have to pay back the “abatement” = the registration rights that you didn’t pay on the first 200.000 euro.
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The 6% and 21% VAT issue is based on new stuff and renovated stuff. For me the blurry line if what if a part is renovated and a part is new, how is it with the VAT.
Some communes or region of communes have a continue 6% VAT to push people do investments in those neighborhoods.
With the société simple, I’m really questionning the registration rights.
- Who pays them initially?
- Who pays them when they were not in the société simple. And if not member of société simple, on which value you pay registration rights ? With which value I mean, only the walls and more from the division or also on works already made ?
Abbatement is quite simple in the principle but it is impacted by how the registration rights are calculated. Is it on the value with or without VAT ?
I personnaly think this is to complex to find out ourselves on the internet and I believe we should see the notary for it. But i’m leaving this thursday morning for 3 weeks so I wan’t be able to be there. I’d really appreciate if it can be done after it.
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I am sorry, but I think we are complicating something that is not complicated, and personally I trust the architects in how they set up the financial estimation.
For me the summary is this:
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Why do the architects count registration rights for the purchase of the site, if the rules say that registration rights are only for people and not for companies (“sociétés”)?
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For the rest of our units we will be paying various types of VAT (6, 15 or 21% for studies and works). We will not have to pay registration rights for the bricks and cement of our units.
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A point of mystery in the architects estimation is line 38, where it says “taxe sur la batisse … ???”. I looked for it on the internet, and I didn’t manage to find it.
Here’s my proposal for the way forward:
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Everybody does a bit of research so that they get the basics.
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We collect questions in this file: https://c301.nl.tabdigital.eu/f/81222
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Team Finance takes it from here, probably first with the architects and then with the coach or the notary
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Ok, so mystery solved for the taxe sur la batisse (stedenbouwkundige lasten): they are different for every commune, but not all communes have them. This is the story that we hear in De Spiegel, where they decided to divide the total sum of the tax, in solidarity with those who bought a newly built unit.
More information in the last bullet of this post: Updated financial estimate - #6 by Lee
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Reopening a thread that we kinda left behind…
Personnaly, I really need clarification on one question: for the new buyers among us, can we expect to benefit from the abattement, and if yes for how much?
I don’t feel like we have found a clear answer on this, so I have put my question in the document above.
Could we get the final word from the notary on this?
I’ll try to make a note and bring it up with the lawyer once we see one for the statutes.
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Thanks!
You think the lawyer would be better suited than the notary to answer this?
But no harm in asking anyway…
I’d propose to start with the lawyer, because the way I understand it there is a relatively straightforward answer to it. If that’s the case, then we can use the notary’s time for something else. If not, then we add it to our list of questions to the notary.
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Hi there!
Did you get an answer on this already?
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