Hi @els
Looks like an important & very detailed list. Wonder whether architects can go into such details but I guess it’s worth asking them.
Thank you
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Just going through the offer from B solutions and found this “Raccordement aux réseaux de distribution (gaz, eaux, électricité)” - are we sure this is not covered?
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can you add it to the list of questions?
for me: these experts are not doing the actual work but doing all kind of calculations (maybe sizes ,…). So for me the actual connection is not foreseen, but prefer to ask
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Hi Els, for me this is really all on @reef-building 's side. We do not decide what to do on, say, the garden, nor can eveluate if their offers are fair. Decisions are on the entire group; evaluation of offer on Team Building, supported by Stekke & Fraas and, if you want, Mark. We are just the people that will take these decisions, put them in a spreadsheet, and make sure the money is there when it is time to pay for them. So I would not discuss them in TeamFin’s meetings.
There is also 30000 to pay to the commune on top of the charge d’urbanisme/“taxe sur la batisse”; I included these info in the document (I knew I made a sum up already somewhere 
).
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thanks, aksed the architects to give us more clarity
https://edgeryders.eu/t/taxe-regionale-et-taxe-communale/20504?u=els
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TB has asked the architects feedback on the more TB related things not foreseen in the price calculation of the FS (no feedback yet).
There is one thing that is not clear to me, and that is the cost that is foreseen in the FS for the enregistrement/notaire.
There is a budget of 150,000 foreseen in the FS, and was wondering if everything is/should be included in here. I am thinking of the following:
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all costs related to the compromis and the deed: notary costs + registration fees
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all costs related to the Sosim (statutes, …): notary costs, insurance,… : probably not a huge amount here
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all costs related to the selling of the land by the reef-owners to the full members: notary costs, registration fees,…? => i have the impression that this might not be foreseen for now.
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do you have a view on the abattement most of the full members will have a right to, and which will be an individual advantage
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hi @reef-finance ,
we got an answer on the TB related unforeseen costs, from the architects.
Les coûts non inclus dans le prix de la faisabilité
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Maitre de chantier. Si ceci n’est pas pris en charge par quelqu’un du Reef (rôle : présent au réunions de chantier hebdomadaire. Faire le lien avec le groupe (pour que des décisions soient prises, des questions soient répondues), contrôle du chantier.
Answer: En effet NON INCLUS -
Assurance tout chantier (Y-a-t’il d’autres assurances qu’il faut prendre lié au chantier/construction?)
En effet NON INCLUS. Une assurance TRC (tout risque chantier) est indispensable. Il existe d’autres assurances complémentaires possibles, qui ne nous semblent pas nécessaires, mais pour cela voyez un assureur qui pourra vous expliquer. Si vous voulez, vous pouvez toujours contacter notre assurance Protect. -
Connection eau, electricité, internet, égouts, (gaz ?)
Answer: En effet NON INCLUS -
Le jardin
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budget pour le jardin (arbres, herbes,…) Anwer: En effet NON INCLUS
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budget pour le murs mitoyens ‘libres’ (peinture, plantes grimpantes,…). Answer: En effet NON INCLUS La finition des murs mitoyens dans le jardin n’est pas compris dans l’étude de faisabilité. Nous pourrons la chiffrer.
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budget pour les chemins pavés (chaises roulantes) ou autres chemins. Answer: En effet NON INCLUS
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budget pour le nivellement du terrain (nécessaire ?). Answer: Le terrain sera remis en état à la fin du chantier (terrain plat). Ne sont pas compris les nivellements spécifiques à l’aménagement du jardin (talus)
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budget pour un apport de terre. Answer: En effet NON INCLUS. A voir si nécessaire avec la qualité des terres actuelles (paysagiste)
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ou pour évaquer le surplus de terre (nécessaire?) Answer: Ca c’est INCLUS
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budget pour les taluds végétalisés (devant les appartements au rez de chaussée) Answer: En effet NON INCLUS.
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Atelier niveau -1 (20 m* 1350 euro/m² = 27000 euro) Answer: En effet NON INCLUS. Attention, le prix au m2 est 1250 €/m2 brut, à quoi il faut ajouter la TVA et les études pour avoir le cout tout compris. (I checked in the last FS we got, and they set the selling price of the caves at 1350 euro/m2. The 1250 euro/m2 is the construction cost without VAT, fees)
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Espace pour les containeres poubelles au niveau -1 (combien de m2 à prévoir en plus?) Answer: C’est INCLUS. Le local poubelle est un espace commun obligatoire, qui est compris dans les m2 prévus au sous-sol.
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Est-ce que vous pouvez confirmer que tous ces coût ne sont pas repris dans le prix de la faisabilité? Est-ce que vous voyez d’autres coûts qui ne sont pas listé ici-dessus et qui ne sont pas repris dans le prix de la faisabilité?
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Vérification des Taxes en cours
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Vérification à votre charge des coûts des frais d’enregistrement, frais de notaire, constitution de société, … (see my question in the post above, which I understood from Ugne will be asked/handled on December 13th when we see the notary)
Est-ce que vous pouvez faire une estimation (plus au moins) pour ces coûts non repris dans le prix de la faisabilité?
- Taxes : en attente retour de la Commune.
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(a very small info on this: vivaqua wouldn’t give an estimate of the costs without a proper “demande de travaux” (see email " Fwd: 2001179531 - DEMANDE D INFORMATIONS" in proton) )
Talked to the architects tonight and confronted them with the notary’s advice.
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They would not hire a professional for the maitre d’oeuvre délégué (which they call a rmo). They don’t think it’s worth the cost, which they estimate at 3 à 4 % of the total budget.
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They also think that for groups doing a lot of the work themselves (autopromotion), it’s an advantage to have SB of the group, not only for during the construction but also for later. They suggest 2 people from the reef ( going to the meetings together)
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What they think is worth it’s money is an external company (seco) checking the ‘thermique’ / the building being watertight and airthight. They don’t go to the réunion de chantier, but check the building at certain times… Serge would look up the cost of this (is not foreseen in the price of the FS).
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I also talked about the géomètre expert the notary is talking about (to divide the site in individual plots) => the architects won’t take this up. Is not foreseen in the price of the FS (but guess will be very small -
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As we already hired a géomètre (Perdaens) I would have thought we could use the results for the division exercise. To be confirmed as we continue.
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We received the meeting minutes of the meeting with the commune mid-november (see post) and discussed this briefly with the architects.
The communal tax (taxe sur les bâtisses)
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Is for 2025 fixed at 3,87 euro/m3
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Little/no chance to get exonerated from
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Not clear at this point on what m3 this exactly applies. (The commune hasn’t given a precise answer to the architect’s question). (I guess it will be minimal based on 1941,3 * 2,7 m3 = 5241,51 m3 => cost of 20.285 euro. Sarah estimated it around 30.000: see file mentioned in the first post in this topic)
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cost not foreseen in the calculation file of the architects
The regional fees
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Is fixed at 65 euro/m2
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Decent/some chance to get exonerated from (based on the reaction of the region in the meeting), but only on the condition we continue with Oaktree (4 units minimal) and they fulfull the conditions of ‘logement conventionné’
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Cost of 126.185 euro foreseen in the calculation file of the architects (based on 1941,3 m2 which is the m2 of logements)
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This 3-4% appears very high. Taking a €7M budget, 3,5% would be €245K, which would be 306 days of work at an hourly rate of €100 … Let’s see what the person says who will be recommended to us by the notary.
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Also, I think it could also be worth looking into how much it would be to have somebody checking the contracts with the entrepeneurs, and go all military on it… That seemed like a crucial part of what the notary was saying…
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That would be the role of this représentant du maître d’ouvrage (RMO) (Owner’s Representative in English). My friend architect mentioned that, to reduce cost, it could be someone among us but:
- it requires experience in managing large building projects (technical, financial, and interpersonal skills)
- because of the amount of work, this person would typically be paid
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Yes, but I meant that rather than hiring a professional for the whole construction phase, we might have an additional option in hiring a professional for the preping phase (contracts) and getting briefed by them on how to deal with the next phase (pitfalls, what do be attentive to with the entrepreneurs, etc…). Kinda getting benefit from both options (adding professionalism and safety, but not spending massive amounts either).
Just a thought…
Got it. This “amateur” among us could also be coached during the whole project by a professional, in particular when the going gets tough. And it will.
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He was supposed to make those calls on Decembre 14th. Has he been in touch?
The notary mentioned a name in his mail to Ugne (see Protonmail).
" 2. À défaut d’un suivi engagé de vos architectes en contrôle d’exécution, bénéficier d’une maîtrise d’ouvrage déléguée (dépenser un peu d’argent pour en gagner) par exemple, [not sure whether I should leave the person’s name in]". The link to his LinkedIn profile is in the agenda of tomorrow’s team Building meeting.
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@sarah asked the question to mark, if he would have an idea on what it costs more or less to connect us to water, electricity,…
Here is his answer, data from The Spiegel:
- Vivaqua connection sewerage: 5.823€
- Vivaqua connection 12 counters for water: 7.307€
- Sibelga connection for 1 common counter for gaz (not applicable for us) : 1.773€ → For budget reasons we chose for 1 common counter and 12 private in between counters (instead of 13 sibelga gaz counters)
- Sibelga connection electricity : 1 common and 12 private counters : 4.371€
(so small cost)
he said that the counters for the ‘chantier’ should not be a cost for us, but for the contractor (but to be foreseen in the contract)
fyi Mark also said they had a bad surprise and were obliged to foresee a ‘high tension cabine’, as the electricity that was left over to distribute was not enough for the cohousing. This lead to modifying the plans quite late in the process, meaning ‘private cellar space that was sold’ needed to be converted into a common space for this cabine. (but guess that would fall under the 10% safety margin). I understood this might not be sth that we can anticipate. Only Sibelga can tell us if this is necessary and probably not possible to get an answer on this already from them (to be seen with the special techniques, to have an idea what we will need as electricity)
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