Visit to Tivoli

The Reef
#1

Hi all @reeflings !
Just to let you know, I’m in touch with the cohousing Tivoli to organise a visit, I will be in touch soon with more details.

They initially asked me what we would be interested in, and offered to try and gather the inhabitants who have been involved in:

  • Legal aspects

  • Relationship to the neighborhood

  • Scouting

I feel that the legal aspects may still be of interest, but I know that the CLT model that they’ve used is not the current favoured one. Are we indeed still willing to explore it?

8 Likes
#2

What is ‘CLT model’ exactly?

#3

Oups sorry!
Community Land Trust, it’s the model where you don’t own the land but have some sort of a 99years lease (at least that’s my take on it!).

#4

Ah right! Thanks for clarifying.

As for your question: the CLT model definitely didn’t seem to be the favoured one at the last plenary, but I also felt like as a group we didn’t feel very knowledgeable or familiar with that model yet. Personally I feel it would be good to find out more about it, in order to really be able to make an informed decision as a group and not fall into the trap of going on a few people’s gut feeling on this.

Choosing our model will be a big irreversable decision, so it makes sense to really explore all options well, in order to avoid possible grievances in the future. Making sure that in the end we all know very well why we did go for one and didn’t opt for another model and what that particular choice brings with it, will be important to avoid regret or conflict later on, I feel like.

3 Likes
#5

@Sarah, I think it would be really interesting to learn as much as possible about the way they acquired their site. What I understand about it is that they got the land for free from Citydev (based on a CLT model), provided that they would open up some of their common spaces to the neighbourhood. @alberto and I have done several attempts to get a contact in Citydev who could tell us more about this, but so far without any success.

About the CLT model I am definitely not an expert, but I think it is important to bring in some nuance. It is one thing to receive the land for free (think 1000 euro per m² x 1500) based on a legal structure based on a CLT (you don’t “own” the land, but you can build a building on it for the next 99 years). I don’t think many people would be opposed to that. It’s yet another thing however, to purchase a site (at 1000 euro per m²) and then turn it into a CLT, so that you no longer own the land that you paid rather expensively. It’s a model that exist, several cohousings have done it, but I would be surprised if there would be a lot of enthusiasm for that in The Reef.

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#6

These three aspects are definitely all of interest to us :slight_smile:

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#7

Hi @Sarah , many thanks. At least the scouting aspects are relevant for our teams cc @MariaAM @JolanWuyts

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#8

Can’t remember whether that was the case but it would seem likely… Sustainability and ecological purposes were also part of the deal…

I might be able to get some insider direct contact from a colleague… will let you know…

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#9

Hi all @reeflings ! Here is the standard little poll !
The visit will most likely be in the evening on a week day, as our hosts might not be available on the weekend. I’ve tried to avoid days with Reef meetings, including for team Building and Finance, as it seems the visit might be very relevant for those teams. Please let me know if I’ve missed any existing commitment.

I am available to visit Tivoli at the following dates, from 6pm onwards:
  • Monday 6
  • Tuesday 7
  • Wednesday 8
  • Friday 10
  • Saturday 11
  • Sunday 12
  • Tuesday 14
  • Thusday 16
  • Friday 17
  • Saturday 18
  • Sunday 19

0 voters

1 Like
#10

I have the feeling I’ve already been there with some Reeflings. @Lee @Sophie_Beese ,is it possible ? :see_no_evil:

#11

@Laurianne, it’s possible, but it wasn’t in my company at least, as I’ve never been there. Tivoli is a cohousing in Jette. It’s the one with the common room at the top floor.

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#12

I’ve been there but only with @Sarah (during the cohousing bike tour)

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#13

Just wanted to add (regarding the counting of the votes) that in our (@leonard) case it would be one or the other coming

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#15

Hello @reeflings
Unfortunately none of the dates worked for our hosts :frowning: They are two so it is more difficult to make it work.
So here is a new poll. I am putting weekends but bear in mind that these are more difficult for our hosts, so picking week days gives us more options!
I’ve sent the link to our hosts as well, to limit back and forth…
https://framadate.org/qseCOJe5DP8tBhgj

@Lee : did we want to decide on the legal structure on the weekend of the 25/26th? Shall I try and insist so that we get a date beforehand?

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#16

No, I don’t think that’s going to be possible, if only because I believe that the final decision will depend on the site that we purchase.

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#17

Hi all!
A kind reminder to fill in the new poll as soon as possible…
https://framadate.org/qseCOJe5DP8tBhgj

So far it looks like the best date would be wednesday 29/03, but not many people have filled the survey. And it would be good to have a better idea of how many we would be.
Cheers!

1 Like
#18

So we’re on for the 29 th at 6pm!
If there are more @reeflings who wanna join, please put a message below so that we know when everybody is here.
As a reminder, we will be talking about the legal structure (Community land trust), the relationship to the neighborhood and scouting. And I’ve asked to visit an appartement, let’s see…

3 Likes
#19

I will join if @Lee is up for it. If I don’t, about the Community Land Trust deal: a key information is the identity of the person they worked with in Citydev. Citydev could be a key partner for The Reef, but it’s an opaque organizazion, in their website there is not even a “contact” section. Can you ask Tivoli to put us in contact with them?

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#20

I’d be happy to join !

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#21

Hi all !
Great guys, the more the merier, and also best to be as many as possible, as our hosts are being extremely accomodating, and ready to share a ton of useful information I think (to anybody reading this, don"t hesitate, join us!)
I’ve put the adress in nextcloud calendar.
I’ve also cc the reef in an email Julien shared with us in preparation of the visit. The email credentials are in Team IT folder (Internal Link).
See you tomorrow!

1 Like