What does security mean to you right now? What makes you feel safe or unsafe right now?

Wellbeing in Europe International
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This period, has for many us caused much uncertainty and worry.

We had some conversations here in our forum where we discussed how people in different places are handling the current situation.

The rules are constantly changing. Different experts are not agreeing on what the right things are to do.

What information can we trust and where can we find it? Who should we listen to, and why?

Different people have responded in different ways depending on how safe we feel in the situation. And how safe we feel probably depends on how much control we feel we have.

I donā€™t worry about getting sick because I am young and healthy right now. But I do worry about the government deciding to basically keep us imprisoned in our homes, police our movements and in other ways limit our freedoms. How long will this last? How can we tell when it is really justified, and when it is because of irrational fear of a small group of people?

Curious to hear what others think about thisā€¦

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As I write this, I am in quarantine waiting on the results of my COVID swab. A housemate of mine tested positive two days ago (no symptoms, though), and we all had to get tested as a result.

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Hereā€™s how it went. On Wednesday at 16.30 she received a call from the Track and Trace call center; immediately alerted us and went into isolation. We all quarantined ourselves on the spot. We then called the call center on Thursday morning, and they immediately generated codes that function as doctorā€™s prescriptions. With them, we could go to a test center (no appointment needed), and by 13.00 our swabs were done. By the end of the afternoon, we had established supply lines: several friends volunteered to do our groceries, the Arab shop next door agreed to deliver anything we order via Whatsapp. Additionally, we re-organized the house: we reserved some spaces (including a toilet) to the person who tested positive, made some new DIY hand sanitizer etc.

All this felt surprisingly peaceful and reassuring. I asked myself why, and ā€“ provisionally ā€“ I concluded that I like what is happening because it makes sense. This is the ā€œtest, track and traceā€ strategy that we were clamoring for in March, and suddenly here it is, and it works. The facilities are in place, and the community does not reject you as an infectious, dirty spreader, but is reasonably (and sometimes very) compassionate and supportive.

And this brought home how unsafe I have felt every time I saw obvious blunders in the whole COVID mess.

Policies with no scientific grounding make me feel insecure, because they reveal the agendas driving them. Exhibit A here is the Italian decision to forbid outdoors physical activity by people on their own. The Health Minister tried to object: doctors are always recommending people exercise more, especially the elderly, and forbidding them to walk seemed very bad for their physical and mental health (and it was). But the Interior Minister insisted: ā€œif people can go out, how can I check that they are not violating the lockdown rules?ā€. This stuff scares me, because it shows the kneejerk attraction for control in many parts of the modern state. So strong, in fact, to trump the wellbeing of citizens. To protect our health, they make us ill.

A tragic symbol of this is a young Bruxellois called Adil: he and his friends were allegedly breaking the COVID imposition to gather in groups, so the police went to break up the gathering. And then they chased him on his scooter, until he crashed onto a chasing police car and died. To protect him from COVID, they killed him.

Politicians minimizing without knowing what they are talking about (like the Belgian federal health minister De Block at the beginning of the crisis makes me feel insecure, because it feels like there are no responsible adults at the steering wheel at a delicate time.

Paternalism and back covering (like the Italian prime minister Conte, continuously pushing the responsibility for fighting the pandemic onto the individual behavior of citizens) makes me feel insecure, because it creates ā€œtoxic communityā€: neighbors turning onto neighbors, accusing innocent runners of ā€œendangering the communityā€ by ā€œnot respecting the rulesā€. And I do not want to live in a toxic community.

Posturing officials (the nationalist/populist leader De Wever, mayor of Antwerp, who imposed a curfew on the city, and that way promoted his image as a tough, determined leader) make me feel insecure, because posturing does nor solve problems, and it rewards strongmen that could potentially make my life more miserable.

Ignorance and high-running emotions (see this funny-sad viral video of Italian mayors enforcing lockdown) make me feel unsafe, because the emotional stance is rhetorically powerful, and can kill any argument.

The sudden spike in appetite for surveillance in the wake of COVID makes me feel insecure. Again, the health argument is threadbare: some countries launched their respective magic COVID apps before having testing capacity. In this situation, all that the app does is surveillance, with very little effect on public health.

The horrible precarity in working conditions makes me feel insecure, because it has a huge impact on public health. People who are not paid to stay at home will risk working, try to hide their symptoms, and infect others ā€“ and this happened, for example in Germany.

I could go on, but you get the idea. The pandemic is a lens, that focuses trends in society. Some of these trends make me feel very insecure. They are the same I disliked before, but there is extra insecurity as I realize how weak the public sphere becomes when people are scared and exhausted.

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I live is a part of the USA where there is a pretty high level of social cooperation. I limit my trips to the store and such but do not feel unsafe doing it because of that broad cooperation. But much of this country has lots of people who are even anti-science. If I had many of them around I guess I would just have to lock down much more.

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I feel unsafe, and a little hopeless, when I see that the vast majority of people are still wearing masks incorrectly.

Not much to do with the masks themselves, as in the immediate sense I donā€™t have much to be afraid of, but instead it has to do with individual choices and responsibilities at scale proving, to me at least, to be a hopeless case for global challenges like climate change.

And, like others I suppose, I fear that being the result of the same inability to discern truth you mentioned in your question. Considering that confusion is practically designed by organisations like Facebook, makes me even more insecure about the futureā€¦

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I am feeling surprisingly safe with regards to both my home country Romania and my adoptive country Belgiumā€¦ I am one who does favour confinement policies because I would rather lose by being indoors with a rule that applies to everyone, and trying to support those who cannot afford to be locked in for the reasons Alberto mentions. I would rather that than be scared during lax rules: when I am following the guidelines but I see others in the community donā€™t - the typical example being shops where you go with a mask on, you try to keep a distance, but you see others breaking the rules and no one is there to enforce them.

Yesterday we had local elections in Romania and finally it looks like the dinosaur Social Democrat Party is out the door - giving way to a center right alliance which is led by many peers in my generation. Entire city halls are now being handed over. Itā€™s still sad for the democratic exercise that the turnout is less than 50% (46% nationally), but anyways. This makes me feel hopeful about new ways of handling this crisis but also a more honest future - the new generation have a lot of mess to clean, but above all they can be guarantees of transparency and a less corrupt government, some minimal principals for applying democratic rule of law.

Iā€™m curious about the aftermath of the Serbian elections: how are you feeling about them @TamaraVuk @jasen_lakic @Tatjana @Nashud @IvanDjuric @MarkaZvaka @DanicaLacarac @Indjijativa ?

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No surprises with the elections there Noemi. The ruling party has overwhelming power and control over the country, which they exercise on every level. Also the opposition is divided into fake opposition (those set up by the ruling party to divide the opposition voters), crooked opposition (people with already bad reputation and with good reason), and opposition focusing often on what the ruling party is doing bad, as opposed to focusing on their own program/road to success. There are exceptions but they donā€™t have much traction and they have to fight against the media and all the votes the ruling party gets by default, thanks to the corrupt structure they created. A lot of people ā€œowe itā€ to the ruling party, be it just a small job in some village or a big company in Belgradeā€¦

Regarding the security, I agree very much with Alberto and the ā€œblunders in the whole COVID messā€. This COVID situation has revealed some very worrying things as far as I am concerned but there are also positives.
Positives would be:

  1. The way whole communities came together in various initiatives created for common good.
  2. Seeing so many academics and intelligentsia all over the world rising up to the challenge and going against the grain/current main narrative regarding COVID.
    There still isnā€™t enough impact as we are witnessing incredible censorship across all media and major platforms but the facts will come out eventually.
    The sheer number of those people, in spite suffering huge pressure from various power structures, tells me something very worrying is happening. If it wasnā€™t, they wouldnā€™t be reacting so strongly.

There are many things which make me feel less secure in recent times, it will be a very long post if I go into all of them so I will just name a big one:
The way majority of people turned into sheep as soon as they felt threatened. We abandoned the most fundamental human rights so easily, even giving up bodily integrity and right to free movement. I realised very fast the real threat doesnā€™t come from the corrupt ā€œsystemā€. It comes from the people surrounding us, the mindless general population. Here is a little passage about Goebbels ways from the introduction of the 1978 book ā€œFinal Entries, 1945: The Diaries of Joseph Goebbels: ā€œThere was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the stronger, and this will always be ā€œthe man in the street.ā€ Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology.ā€
I donā€™t know about you but to me this is freakishly familiar to strategy used today.

All that is the result of long term institutionalized obedience and weakened individual. Does it lead to increased dependence of the state?

Human freedom used to mean freedom from the king, then from the state, today it means protection by the state. They are using fear and manipulation of fear to reduce personal freedom as a necessity of increased security.

The scariest part for me is seeing people I consider intelligent and educated go into the sheep/robot mode, call it what you will. That just shows the effectiveness of the machine.

Overall I believe the responses/anti COVID measures put in place are disproportionate and in general a result of very bad judgement. I believe they will kill more than COVID. I believe they will cause a lot more long term damage, both mental and physical, on a very large amount of people.
I know nobody will answer for what is being done right now but, I also believe people should bear consequences for their actions and I know whey willā€¦one way or the other.

Coronary viruses are particles between 0.06 micron and 0.14 micron in diameter, averaging about 0.125 micron. Still think the pieces of cloth/plastic people put on their mouth protect anyone?
Obviously masks are effective and have been used by professionals for a long time. What you see people wearing around you has nothing to do with a proper mask.
I believe also the authorities would be more clear about the difference between a mask and face covering. Mask would protect us more but making us all cover our faces increases social distance and is a great exercise in social obedienceā€¦

Are people wondering about very experienced, capable people who achieved a lot in their respective fields of virology, microbiology etc suddenly being called charlatans, weirdos and nutcases because they told us a different story about COVID or the measures taken against it?

Why do professionals from various medical fields in Germany have to organise by themselves a conference, sponsor it themselves and post it themselves on youtube as not a single media would cover them anyway? Itā€™s a wonder youtube didnā€™t censor them as wellā€¦they censored since all this started.

What about the CDC numbers released recently, about mortality rates? Turns our we are looking at a flue variation? The average age of deceased is 78 years? What about the fact that only a fraction of deaths could be really attributed to COVID? Great majority have covid as one of the reasons for death but, considering the current agenda, it is often just added to the regular cause of death. Over 90% had more than 1 cause of death.

Everyone talks about false negatives but how many false positives are there? I have a minor cold right now, I bet I would be positive if I did 3 tests over the next 3 days.
I know people who tested positive after spending 2 weeks with their whole family in the same villa. Only one person tests positive and 9 others have nothing? Well is this virus highly infectious or are our PCR tests not reliable? Same with people who tested positive but had no anti bodies later, false positives?
There are so many questions raised, so much simply stinks in this whole story and I really hope we will get to the bottom of it soon.

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Which policy of Serbia/ Belgium are you refering to hereā€¦?
Is it the wearing of masks, closing border, or closing public venues and gatherings? or all?
The question of what are the best policies in times like these I believe it is very complex and of course it will depend on the type of state you are and how ā€˜rulyā€™ or ā€˜unrulyā€™ the population isā€¦

Iā€™ve said this before, even though I fundamentally agree with the idea of personal freedom AND responsibility, Iā€™m not quite sure how low level ā€˜common senseā€™ measures could have been taken in states where the tools for crisis management are lacking, not to mention the severe lack of capacity of medical systems:
I think there;s a reason why we are now seeing a second wave that incidentally coincides with the relaxation of some measuresā€¦ In Romania for example, I would have been grateful with more strict rules applied already in March/April that limit some personal freedoms in order to save lives in the future, or prevent the breakdown of hospitals capacity, which we are seeing now.

But I agree that there will always be some level of instrumentalisation and some unfair benefits to those part of the surveillance state, as well as some deeply unnecessary loss of lives - like the
guy chased and killed by the police in Molenbeekā€¦ So I guess the question to: which regulations make more or less safety? which regulations make more or less freedom? will always have the double edged swordā€¦ At least until we can play a new game that has truth and good intentions at the core.
But we know itā€™s not how the world worksā€¦ Thatā€™s why I am at a loss.

A book I really enjoyed at the recommendation of Alberto is:

Seeing Like a State - I learned a lot about the historical perverse patterns of simplification and creating ontologies to the benefits of readability and order of a society, and to the disadvantage of improving the human condition.

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@albow7 I think you might enjoy this conversation tooā€¦
If you have ā€˜war storiesā€™ from the UK do share them. A few of us here are expats in Belgium, but stay connected to a global changing world, and we are worried, as you can see.

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Oh you just went back to the same ā€œdanger, protect, responsibility, save livesā€ mantra.

Well first info I can give you is this (coming from a real person I had a drink with yesterday):
I have a friend in catering business. He does it in Belgium for extremely rich people lately. He is working events for 70-1100 people. No masks, no distances, no corona measures whatsoever. It is happening right now while they are introducing new bans. This week he is busy from Wednesday to Sunday.
What are the measures for the rest of the population in Belgium again? I should stop here as this is already food enough for thought butā€¦

Your basic premise seems to be built on information we are being served by mainstream media. As long as thatā€™s your premise, we cannot really discuss the measures taken. Not because you are wrong and I am right. It is simply because we start with a very different premise so we have fundamentally different perception on the things. I know it is possible I am quite wrong about everything, but I believe I have more information than you do, coming from very different sources. So unless you are willing to take a good look at that, we cannot really reach understanding. When I see a phrase like

it gives me the creeps. The way my brain filtered it is: ā€œthe situation is too complex for us mortals to understand, so we should let the state take care of itā€¦and if it looks like they are being rough on us, itā€™s because we cannot understand anything better, itā€™s just tough love and they have our best interest in mindā€. I know thatā€™s not exactly what you meant but, I said thatā€™s how my brain filtered it :slight_smile: .

Yes. I am talking about restriction of movement, of seeing other people, soon to be obligatory vaccine for everyone. They are again creating conditions detrimental for human health, both mental and physical. It will lead to a desparate situation where people will accept so happily any vaccines they give in order to improve their life. In fact, vaccine will not be mandatory but they will make our life pretty much impossible without itā€¦so yeah we will have the ā€œfreedom of choiceā€.

Now I see articles with titles like ā€œcovid all but exterminated fluā€ and similar bullshitā€¦come on. The crap they are feeding us is just insulting. They have to do it though because, no matter how much you censure the information, the truth will come out. Especially something as simple as just going through the total number of deaths this year, comparing to deaths previous years. Then comparing the numbers of covid cases, combining with flu cases and comparing with previous years. When you consider the average age of covid deaths, you can see how ridiculous this whole thing is.

What about this People Being Classed As Dying Of COVID-19, Even if the - altCensored
And why is that video censured on youtube? It is a common practice in every countryā€¦
Are you aware of big financial incentives to declare more Covid cases?
How about this: Forensic Doctor Destroys Media Lies: 'Nobody Died of - altCensored , average age is 80.
Why is it banned on youtube? Why are so many people banned/censured on facebook too?
Why are even google searches meddled with? I tested them after a video talking about how all info against corona mainstream narrative is buried under all kinds of pages debunking it and that is a factā€¦

And no, I am not saying old people should die. I am saying a lot of them are dying of other things and covid is just added to the list and included in statistics. There are plenty of cases for that and testimonies by doctors as well. Did you see the new numbers released by CDC???
Highest death toll is for 70+ age and it is 0.05%.

I am not saying corona virus doesnā€™t exist. I am saying it is used to justify catastrophic social engineering experiments and economic reset which is coming. Which I knew will come 5 years ago already by the way, so did several of my friendsā€¦or we missed by a year.

I am also saying things have been blown out of proportion and for reasons I canā€™t fully understand. The reason is certainly not covid19 threat to our civilisation. We deal with things worse than that every dayā€¦
My whole point is this:
There are far deadlier things than covid and we never mobilised or locked down the world to deal with them. Psychopaths we have as heads of states or the ultra powerful couldnā€™t care less for loss of human life, but now suddenly they will lock down whole countries to save lives? Thatā€™s a big red flag for me. Every day around the world we see proof of their care for human life. Over the last 1000 years, every bit of freedom won was through struggle and in spite of the ruling class. They are as disconnected from general population or real life as royalty was in middle agesā€¦
Do you know that women giving birth in French hospitals were obliged to wear masks DURING CHILDBIRTH? Sounds like a humane measure?

You donā€™t find it strange that so many very reputable and successful academics in the relevant fields risk everything and go publicly against the mainstream narrative?

How about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X21UboS93qc&ab_channel=GlobalMedia
or this America's Frontline Doctors SCOTUS Press Conference - altCensored

Funny how Lancet publishes 2 researches claiming hydroxychloroquine is not effective against covid 19 AND it actually increases the death % and all media publish that. A bit later Lancet retracts the research as it did not pass the peer review and very few media publish that fact.
Here is the link example https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

Do you believe a nobel prize winner for his work on HIV is talking nonsense when he says that covid19 was artificially modified? I mean, he is only a virologist with many awards, national and international and with 50+ years of experience in the fieldā€¦ again now, I am looking for his video on youtube and no way to find it. By youtube algorithms it is supposed to be at the very top but I see some obscure people ā€œdebunkingā€ his claims with low view counts. It shows how far the tech dictatorship and control goes.
Ok I found it under a non English title finallyā€¦ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdj4hRvJ3vA&t=34s&ab_channel=FESTV
He was of course contradicted by Dr. R. Sebbag, a virologist with a career in business, notably one of the most profitable ones (vaccines).
Here is something about vaccinesā€¦
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5pj1eb8JXA&ab_channel=ludovicserrano

Do you believe Dr. Didier Raoult is a charlatan too? He also only has decades of experience as a microbiologist specialised in infectious deseases. He is one of the most influential microbiologists in the world and has revolutionised the fieldā€¦and now they treat him as a charlatan just because he did not agree with the mainstream covid 19 nonsense narrative.

We have 5000 tests per day in Croatia now, compared to 5000 per month in August or July.

In Belgium we had 3 times more tests done per day since September compared to July and August. If you consider that PCR test basically is extremely unreliable, it is only normal we have raise in cases.

Same is with double counting. That was even in mainstream media, if a person tested twice and both times was positive, they counted that in final statistics.

Letā€™s just forget all that ā€œconspiracy talkā€ and use plain logic: there are many corona viruses, how did we battle them? What were the solutions far? Have we ever locked down healthy population?

If this one is so different, why is that the case? I go back to man made manipulation but it could be my mistake totally.

I had Covid in family and friends too, so did my partner. Combined we know more than 20 people who were diagnosed. There was 1 extreme case with a lot of pain and lengthy recovery, one with long lasting effect of no taste or smell. The rest were no symptoms or equal to mild fluā€¦

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I too have my doubts on many levels.My defaults is to attribute it to flawed reasoning and incompetence, rather than intentional engineering. Have you read Gladwellā€™s ā€œTalking with strangers?ā€ I find him problematic for reasons which I will not get into here, but some of the cases he points out in the book are food for thought/

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Well I believe it is the mix of the two. When I see things like curfew from 1AM to 6AM, I cannot attribute it to much else but total stupidity :rofl:

I mean, the only thing I can imagine they want to stop would be parties. The effect will be that those will be all night parties, thatā€™s all. Also, if they want to stop parties, why do it during the weekdays? I donā€™t know, makes no sense whatsoever.

Well it could also be an exercise in projection of power and preparing us gradually to worseā€¦who can tell.

Here is another interesting initiative, signed by A LOT of scientists as well.

Edit: I will check that book out, thanks

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or the dutch forbidding sale of cannabis from coffeeshops before 8pm. Like, is covid not contagious at night or what?

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Here is a new piece of information:

COVID 19 cycle

These are the cycles, tightening, then relaxing the covid measures in Serbia each 51 dayā€¦letā€™s see if it will follow the pattern in the next few cycles. Of course, it doesnā€™t mean there is a great conspiracy thereā€¦it could still be accidental. When you take into consideration that rise in testing will automatically mean rise in number of infected, you can see how easy it is to manipulate the numbers though.

A guy I know came back to Croatia from abroad and had to get tested last week, company policy. He went to get tested, saw a huge queue and decided to come back next day.
Next day they call him, telling him he tested positiveā€¦
edit: in case it wasnā€™t clear, he never was tested :smiley:

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You know there is a serious problem when, in a response to a virus from corona family, so many measures are actually detrimental to health. They reduce mental and physical wellbeing, greatly reduce immunity and in some cases downright harm us directly (like wearing masks for 8-10 hours per day). So happy I am not in situation where my income depends of such crapā€¦

On the other hand, newspapers are full of articles about how our immune system is not enough and how only vaccines can save usā€¦well of course if the only tool we have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Have you read somewhere an article saying "make sure to eat properly, take your vitamins, zinc, magnesium, whatever you could be missing now, do regular physical activity, be with people you love etcā€¦that actually gives us the highest chance to ward off ANY corona virus. Or if we get it, it gives us the highest chance of reducing its effect.

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:grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing:

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Yes, I heard these stories in other places too, I just think itā€™s one thing to talk about stupidity and silly measures or bad policy, or even heavy interests meddling (like in the case of Big Pharma), and another to talk about conspiracy. In the end, we have a virus that is arguably alarming enough to require some actions for prevention of its spread. Is it too much hysteria and fake news? Yesā€¦ and I canā€™t disagree with you on this:

Overall I believe the responses/anti COVID measures put in place are disproportionate and in general a result of very bad judgement. I believe they will kill more than COVID. I believe they will cause a lot more long term damage, both mental and physical, on a very large amount of people.

Do you believe a nobel prize winner for his work on HIV is talking nonsense when he says that covid19 was artificially modified?

Honestly, I donā€™t know anything about this and will look into it, but it wonā€™t change how happy or not I am with government measures, you see?

All in all, I think responses and public reactions to this pandemic are hardly rational. Thereā€™s something about a pandemic thatā€™s not the same as having similar no. of deaths from a serious disease - thereā€™s just general panic (amplified by the news yes) and it hits you in your primal fear. When I think about my family and my older grandma, I would much rather that they are strict about protective measures, whether itā€™s to stay home and not go to work, or always wear a mask, than risking deadly scenarios. Yes, my grandma has other afflictions, but if she can live a couple of more years than die of covid+comorbidity factor, Iā€™ll take itā€¦ and sheā€™ll take it. This reasoning could continue all the way to ā€˜ā€˜but what if we could have access to clean, clear, truthful information and best readings of numbers, and only the ā€˜realā€™ experts in the media and our families neednā€™t sacrifice so much?ā€™ā€™, then of course itā€™s a dire situation to be in. But you see what I meanā€¦

I believe also the authorities would be more clear about the difference between a mask and face covering. Mask would protect us more but making us all cover our faces increases social distance and is a great exercise in social obedienceā€¦

Yes, agreed

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@markomanka, do you have thoughts on this?

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The way you said it sounds like even that is a bit far fetched :slight_smile:
Well do you believe that, in a world where private companies have more power than most countries, they do not project that power in many ways which suit their interests? What is the purpose of a private company or investment funds? The examples where they affect policy making are huge. There is info I would gladly share but I cannot as it will be obvious who shared it with me due to family connection. I will share it with you in private next time we meet but it is an amazing example of policy created to suit the few who pay a lot for itā€¦and there are plenty of examples for that around us.

Which stories are conspiracy exactly? Story about events for more than 1000 people held in Belgium at the moment with no masks or any distance rules is a fact. Told by a person who does this events, to me, over a drink. Or story which my friend told me friday night, over dinner. His cousinā€™s grandfather died of cancer and the family was asked to sign he died of COVID. As his cousin is a nurse, and they know a some of whatā€™s going on, they refused.

Here is something more for you, watch before it is removed from my fb post or youtube.
another conspiracy video :rofl:

Well I already posted plenty of links.
This exactly is the problem, implying there is nothing we can change about it. Well right now we canā€™t change anything about it. If more people actually realised all this is total nonsense, it would bring about change. And change is needed. If nothing else, this whole situation showed what kind of people we have in positions of high responsibility or influence and how much control is actually exercised by the power systems.
I donā€™t want my children to grow up in the world which is becoming more and more oppressiveā€¦so I spend huge amounts of energy now to tell people about the alternative views on things.

So we should live like this indefinitely? As covid isnā€™t that much more dangerous than flu and is certainly much less dangerous than some other viruses which can hit your grandma. What you are saying is that 99.9% of the population should wear masks because 0.1% could die of ā€œXā€? So children should wear masks 9h per day? Various professionals as well? You try wearing the mask and just breathing faster in it for a minute and tell me what you feel. What are the effects on people wearing those for so long?
Letā€™s not get into the fact a lot of people die indirectly due to corona measures or corona scare. Like, avoiding hospitals and not getting treatment on time. Like deaths at emergencies because the stuff is forbidden to do mouth to mouth during reanimation (increase by 30%). Like suicides and various mental disorders being developed.
Here is a young woman dieing of cancer because she was diagnosed with COVID and sent home. Look at the reduction of the number of cancer detected cases year on year in UK. How many people will die because they now have cancer which was never detected and in a year it will be too late? Cancer mortality rate is more like 50%, so what about that?
How many people will die of famine due to this measures? How many millions was the number given by UN? What of economic situation? Letā€™s see the result of reduced wellbeing by so muchā€¦letā€™s see the future where we killed hundreds of thousands of small businesses and we channeled even more public money into corporations which donā€™t need it or should never get it for ethical reasons.

Sorry but when professionals and academics from the relevant field come out and talk against the measures (risking their professional career and more), I am certainly more inclined to believe them than some corrupt politicians or representatives of corps making billions out of this clusterfuck.
And that has been happening all over the world, that is a big red flagā€¦

Why did facebook remove my post about The Barrington Declaration? Itā€™s just ridiculousā€¦facebook has become an authority on medical practices and also on which information people should discuss??? Virologists and academics from Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, Yale etc do not have a relevant opinion on the subject???
Welcome to the Brave New Worldā€¦

I just came from a village in Croatia, where I saw a lot of old people I care about, and my godson who is definitely part of the high risk population due to his immune system troubles. Even knowing what I know, I of course had to battle fear of spreading something to themā€¦that is the effect of us being bombarded constantly this bshit info.

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Ok so if you were in charge of setting policy for your society, what would that policy be?

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Well first thing I would do is basis for any democracy. Allow open discussion about the subject (ANY SUBJECT), consider all FACTS and transparently make decisions.

We have neither transparency nor open discussion, I never saw such censorshipā€¦not even in war times!

Then I would make a decision based on the outcome of those discussions, had by relevant people obviously. The only thing I could do is listen to them and try logically to find the best solution. Relevant meaning people with knowledge and experience in the fieldā€¦media sites Bill Gates, Fauci and some random highly paid monkeys but silences and ridicules professionals with decades of experience and incredible accomplishments in the fieldā€¦that by itself is a travesty and should never be allowed in any country aspiring to be or calling itself democracy.

Based on the info I have and the way I understand it:

Itā€™s hard to say as there is too much manipulation right nowā€¦and I canā€™t understand their agenda.
In some cases itā€™s clear, as there are big financial incentives for hospitals. If you combine that with the fact that A LOT LESS people go to hospitals, they are very much encouraged by the policy put in place to report as much COVID cases as they can. Autopsy is done on how many cases? 5% max? How do they know who died of COVID? Practitioners will tell you that great majority of time it is a best guess they are makingā€¦
Same thing with PCR tests, they are incredibly inaccurate and cannot distinguish between different corona virusesā€¦it cannot even distinguish between lime disease and covid 19. My aunt has to have a paper proving she has lime disease as it will show up positive every time.
Incredibly, we see flu diagnoses down by a huge number but corona cases growing big time as soon as schools openedā€¦and a very low number of those actually end up as severe cases (just like flu).

  1. I would certainly not introduce any kind of lockdowns but rather establish systems for helping those who most need it. Elderly and in general people from high risk groups.
    So far policies have just made them more vulnerable, as they interrupted completely or modified the existing systems.
    Considering the average age of those who died of COVID and the mortality rate of infected in general, I cannot justify paralyzing the world.

  2. I would also make sure to educate people about how to keep their immune system at maximum. Which means eating healthy, sleeping properly, physical activity, spending the time with people we love etcā€¦
    I certainly wouldnā€™t create an atmosphere of fear and paranoia we have.

  3. I would allow practitioners to share their experiences, not censor or silence them if they go against my decisions/narrative. That is what is done now, best example being Americaā€™s Frontline Doctors, Dr. Didier Raoult, German, Dutch, French initiatives, Serbian doctors who also spoke about data manipulationā€¦The Barrington Declarationā€¦there are examples of that all over the world.
    The amazing example of manipulation there is the hydroxychloroquine ā€œresearchā€. I wrote about it previously, with link to Lancetā€™s article with huge RETRACTED letters over it. All media wrote about the research originally, but the fact it did not pass peer review and was retracted after a week was quickly buried under a pile of rubbish.

My logic behind it would be what Sweden did, but combined with my first pointā€¦it seems they failed there big time. That way the stronger part of the population would get the virus, their immune systems fighting it each time, making it weaker as it spreads but making our immune systems stronger.
That way, after some time, even those with higher risk would have much greater chance of getting through it.

Right now we are being served a story the only solution is a vaccine. That is a pile of shit, just like vaccine against flu is a pile of shit. Pardon my French but thatā€™s me saying it mildlyā€¦
I have 0 trust towards people making billions out of that. I have 0 trust towards people who have already misused hundreds of millions of public money given to them for specific purpose of common good.
Before anyone starts with ā€œconspiracy theoriesā€, that is public information, in shape of a recent European Commission report after their investigation into how big pharma used the grants they were given.
They basically used them for more profitable projects.
I have also 0 trust in people known for their horrible business practices over decades, like Bill Gates. Suddenly the guys is the worldā€™s authority on health, public policy and the biggest philanthropist.
I have 0 trust in the philanthropist who invested a lot into weapons manufacturers, GMO and vaccinesā€¦basically the most profitable industries and certainly not considering the common good.
I also have 0 trust in companies which have little accountability and are lobbying for even less accountability. Vaccines are already exempt of tougher regulation regular medicine has to go through, but now they want absolute 0 accountability and a creation in EU of a fund like the US National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

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