Hello @els,
Ping @reef-coordination,
I had a first go at the budget and created an Excel file in Team Building > Avant-projet > Estimation budget: Login – Nextcloud
I created three different tabs: to be clarified, could be cut, may be added. So far it’s sort of break-even, but the devil is of course in the “to be clarified” tab.
Els, would you be willing to have a look and make amendments?
I added stuff and I have a few more questions for WAlk
Added a new section in the ‘to be clarified’ tab: things that we might take up ourselves and have the price reduced… But I would like to have the architects opinion on that , and only to be considered if there is a commitment to do it by a minimum number of reeflings.
Update: I had a short chat with François this afternoon. Here’s a couple of points that I need to debrief:
Geothermal heat pump: yes, it’s possible to just have 20 m² underground for a local technique in Obelix, so no need to foresee any extra costs.
Getting more details from Walk on what we are getting (e.g. details ventilation etc): this is not part of the avant-projet yet, so not really possible. In summary they are reported to have said that their estimates are comfortable (“à l’aise”) and that they are foreseen good quality products (“du bon matériel”). That said, he said that we are welcome to call them if we have questions and/or to ask for an additional meeting next week.
On that: I see that we just received a long email, including their note, so the first thing now will be to study that.
On the different budget estimates we concluded that the price we are aiming for is 3500 euro / m² brut casco. The output numbers in the coloured file are not fully accurate, because some variables are not up-to-date. He said he would send us an Excel file to tinker with and has followed up on that in the meanwhile (he reported an error message on an email though - will follow up later tonight).
Other than that I sent a list with the questions that I considered to be the more urgent ones and the ones that can’t be answered by ChatGPT. @els would it be ok for you to first see what we get back and also to maybe check a couple of your questions with ChatGPT first? After that we can always send a second batch of questions.
No problem. Although I find ChatGPT a very powerful tool, I also find it a bit dangerous as it needs a very precise formulated question. I am also not familiar with it, but i can try…
@Lee : can you let me know where I can find the questions you did send? Is it this thread: https://edgeryders.eu/t/clarifications-sur-le-budget/20878?u=els
You will always need your own brain to verify what is said, but my experience so far has been astonishing. It’s much faster than anything I can research with a search engine.
It’s in the post that I sent to François this afternoon. (I’d share the link, but I’m really pressed for time tonight).
i have the link, no worries
I see most of my questions are answered with the technical note they send…
Hi @Lee
Based on what i read from the info delivered by WaLK. (I cannot do a ‘record changes’ in your doc. So i will list them here as well):
high voltage cabine: needed (16 m2) (I don’t think the cost of an extra 16 m2 common space is included in their price)
Overheating: They indicate it is necessary to foresee a system to cool down the unit, so the temperature goes down to 24°C. I don’t think this is foreseen in the cost. I read that there is some ‘cooling system’ within the ventilation, and they mentioned the heat pumps could have a ‘cooling’ option as well, but I think here they talk about something else still
An option to add/to discuss (?) that wasn’t yet mentionned in the estimate of the architects I think: battery to stock the overproduction of electricity: 30.000 euro
linked to the temporisation of the water extraction: they now talk about ‘prévoir
une noue de temporisation de 162 m² sur une profondeur de 40 cm’. I am not sure if this was already foreseen in their first documents on which S+F based themselves for the estimate.
Thanks Els, great stuff.
I will have relatively limited time today (tomorrow I have all day). Would you be willing to contact the architects and Walk to ask whether we can have an online meeting with them early next week to discuss the results they sent us?
Also another thing I needed to debrief:
The total number of heatpumps is 23, because the inclusive units would be sharing one. So it’s 21 + 2 for the common spaces. (I think we knew that already, but we forgot about it 
)
Linked to the solar panels info received, there is contradictory information , to be cleared out
In the doc dedicated to the panels, they mention
51 panels at a cost of 30 000 euro
Battery of 40 000 euro
In the technical note and mail
they mention 89 panels
Battery of 30 000 euro
In the estimates from the architects,
@els: would it take you a lot of effort to find the correct percentage for the technical experts’ fees?
correct percentage or correct amount (= real amount)?
the percentage used in the FS simulation file: 5,1%
the correct amount: i can look it up. I remember that they were all fixed amounts except for Matriche, were is was expressed in a % of the casco budget
Yes, I’d like to get the real numbers, so I can update the estimate.
The prices are mentioned in this post:
https://edgeryders.eu/t/final-price-offers-for-the-chosen-bureaux-detudes/20656?u=els
also the prices of land surveyor and soil samples are in this post (and should be included in these fees)
fyi (not sure this is helpfull): if you are planning to calculate the casco price (including vat,fees), based on the estimates.
This is how they do it in the simulation file:
cost of site + related notary costs
plus cost for the casco
plus VAT on the casco
plus 5,1% on the casco for technical experts => so in the simulation file they divide the cost of those technical experts over the casco and finishing. I guess you will all put it in the casco price (which seems more logic)
plus vat for these technical experts
plus 10% of architects fee
plus vat on the architects fee
minus selling of options (parkings, terraces, entree couvertes, coursives, private cellar spaces)
This total you divide by the number of m2 vendable and you have the casco price/m2
That doesn’t help me much.
Is it technically possible to say something like the number should not be “15,1%” but xxx"?
yes, but therefore i need the total casco cost(excl vat), can you give that to me?
And you want it including the architecs fees as well?
can you send me a signal message if you need my help (will start cooking sth for tomorrow…)
i created a little excel for you to calculate it, by introducing the casco cost, so just fill in cell ‘B1’ and it will calculate what you want, with or without the architects fees…
calculating fees.ods (19.2 KB)