Enspiral vs ouishare vs edgeryders


#1

Each of these three organizations is a decentralied group of people working for a society based on sharing, transparency, and open governance.

Can anyone explain why you have not simply joined one of these other two?

thanks,

brian russell


#2

Welcome!

Hi @brinerustle , I’m Noemi and have been around for some time.

My quick answer, from the top of my mind (apologies, I’m traveling): I like both OuiShare and Enspiral, my best guess is looking at the differentiation factors in the models - I see Ouishare being more entrepreneurship driven, Enspiral more governance driven, and Edgeryders more research driven. Our model could be even a function of some key people’s passions :) You can’t make a data scientist run massive global events etc. People may want to do things and create outlets for that if the outlets are not there already.

Obviously there’s a lot of alignment and in fact we cross paths, speaking and participating at each other’s events… also the global network base has overlaps. Which is great, it means people are learning from each other and carrying learnings. I don’t see any problem, it happens in many fields.

Some community members also explored the issue of interoperability in some depth, but never got to somewhere actionable. Can’t seem to find the link right now…

You also might want to travel back in time as an exercise and see how people in the current organisation and larger network dreamed up edgeryders in its earlier days.


#3

Different priorities, cultures and tools

Hi and welcome Brian.

A couple of years ago I attempted to get a discussion about more collaboration going at ouisharefest. While it was initially met with some postive feedback, nothing came out of it. I suppose there are many possible explanations for why but these are my own:

Priorities. Loomio is tech-focused, ouishare is focused on one theme and the focus is their big annual event a.f.a.i.k. Edgeryders is  focused on what the individual wishes to do, rather than the tools with which to do it, or how it is (if at all) related to any particular topic/theme/objective etc.

Rules of engagement and how things get done: Edgeryders strives to be a do-ocracy and “who does the work, calls the shots” etc. This is different from a consensus-based decision making culture where it is important that everyone is “heard”.

Tools. E.g. The last time I checked Ouishare was largely facebook-based,  whereas this is the Edgeryders ethos on the matter. Loomio develops and uses it’s home grown tools for deliberation and decision making. Edgerydere develops and uses it’s own tools for collective intelligence (using ethnography and network analysis). Perhaps we may end up using some of their tools, but once a culture within a community (including use of tools) is set, it’s very costly to change…


#4

What are the advantages?

Welcome, @brinerustle !

Well, as you say there is a decentralist streak in all of these people, so non-merging is the default state. What advantage do you see in merging?


#5

Avoiding a monoculture

I like Alberto’s response. I don’t know Ouishare well but know the other two. I don’t see any advantage to Edgeryders joining a group based in New Zealand (Enspiral). Sure, there are plenty of overlaps in culture, but Enspiral is quite homogenous (IT people working for themselves) and I don’t know how Edgeryders would fit in - it has broader aims and methods. Also, for Edgeryders to merge with Enspiral, it would probably need to accept the primacy of the Enspiral Foundation - why would it do that?. Maybe in years to come when there are, say, 50 or more open, networked, purposeful communities like this and they are operating on a larger scale, we will see increasing mergers as best practice from each is drawn out and spread and it gets easier for the cultures to blend. But for now I think there is still huge value in different players pursuing different strategies and tactics to make the world a better place. There is more than enough room for several “players” in the market for now.


#6

good answers

Thanks for the answers. I wasn’t trying to imply that there was something wrong with doing your own thing at edgeryders, more just wondering what the difference was.


#7

Real question

Mine was not a rhetorical question. Maybe there are some advantages to merging I do not see – and in that case I would very much like to learn about them!

My theory of collaboration is this: collaboration always needs to have an immediate, achievable goal. You do not come together just to present a common front: you come together because there is something you want to build, and you think you can do it faster and better together. So, whenever we propose a collaboration to someone, it s always oriented: let’s build X.

So, what could we do with these orgs?


#8

I’m reviving this because I’ve just been (October 2018) to the Human Networks Convergence meeting in Barcelona where I was myself talking over the issue of inter-network collaboration. And @patrick_andrews was there too (great to meet you! :slight_smile: ). Has anyone here seen any significant / substantial / material progress in the last 20 months?

To address @alberto’s last point, (hi! :slight_smile: ) the potential I see is in co-ordination, not in merging of organisations. I’m keen to reopen this discussion on two levels: first, from the point of view of role differentiation, specialisation, efficiency (yes) and overall effectiveness; and second, specifically from the point of view of information systems. My personal intuition is that there is a very great deal that we could give to each other in terms of overall synergy, if we were more carefully to explore this, which is no more really than Principle 6 of the ICA co-operative principles — co-operation among co-operatives.

And to answer @alberto’s direct question, yes, I agree (and so do my co-op partners) that collaboration is best focused around projects. My question is, how do we take the first step, and find the projects that we will collaborate on? My tentative answer, for the moment, is that we have dialogue across organisations, across networks, between those people who “get” the point of collaboration. This has a research aspect (Edgeryders) a governance aspect (Enspiral) and an entrepreneurial aspect (Ouishare), so it should be stimulating, if we can find the right participants.

One idea is that we could aim to bring together systems thinkers and developers in a systems stream at future events in the Human Networks Festival calendar.

Anyone like to collaborate on this?


#9

Can you make me see it? Is it a common product that we sell? Or a common investment?


#10

To me it is best to talk, as that would be the best way of ensuring that I am answering your actual question, @alberto. Are you free for, say 15 minutes some time this week?


#11

Yes. Kind of a moving target, but yes. How about Wed morning?


#12

Good! I have a meeting 10 to 11 my time (11 to 12 Brussels time) but any other time would be fine. Through what channel would you like to talk? We have each other on Skype, if there is nothing better…


#13

Looking good guys,

Just chiming in to say that Richard Bartlett from Enspiral was a guest during a dinner at the Reef in Brussels a couple months ago, and he might be someone to invite along, if this goes anywhere.
Next time you go to a networks convergence/ anything community and collaboration related, please give me a heads up, would love to come along :stuck_out_tongue:
xx


#14

@hugi so funny I saw this again just after our chat the other day :slight_smile:


#15

In the end @asimong and I did not get it together, mostly because I became overwhelmed with my PhD. @noemi, would you be willing to pick this up and re-organize a meeting with Simon?


#16

Sure. I’m not clear what the call is for: are we discussing participation at the next Human Networks festival?
Am I getting it right @asimong?

Depending on the agenda of the call I will look for other Edgeryders to join who are potentially interested in organising a presence and conversation there. Let’s make this concrete… even if it is the beginning of a conversation. Let me know?
I’m available towards the end of next week - Thu/ Fri.
xx


#17

Sorry, @noemi I accidentally dropped this thread :frowning: Happy to pick it up when you’re free, and also maybe work in a little discussion of Richard Bartlett’s “Courage before Hope”?

I’ve also recently been to the CoTech gathering in London where I was convening some work on skills mapping.

It’s Timothée Bres from Ouishare who is probably in January going to start planning some event in Brussels, but it’s all a bit vague until he restarts his work on this. Meanwhile it would be good to discuss what kind of collaboration may be possible.


#18

Haha perfect timing as I’ve just read Richard’s long piece at @hugi’s recommendation - we have a fresh discussion about it here btw!

Definitely in for something in Brussels.
What I dont understand still is where this is going in terms of people collaborating? Richard’s mission is quite clear, and he will go on doing it. But the rest…, after Barcelona? Is there a scope to organise Human Networks events for more sharing? or does it go beyond it - i.e. building new projects, in ways in which we could be actively involved?

Since you know both Edgeryders and the others, maybe you see ways @asimong?


#19

Hi Noemi, I was part of the second Network Convergence in Barcelona and we are organising one for 2019 summer in Barcelona or in the south of France. Do you want to co-create with us?


#20

Hi @MarcelaA, and welcome to Edgeryders! Yes, I would like to see where this is going, joining you and perhaps peeking at what the practical goals are for the movement. This is something that wasn’t clear to me as I was reading about the first edition in Barcelona.

Let me know how/where i could plug in, maybe calls or working groups etc? xx
Feel free to direct message me if it is private information, thanks!